Laura Jayes: Shadow Treasurer Tim Wilson, thank you for your time. I'm not quite sure what the point of last night's national address was. Are you?

Tim Wilson MP: Yes, the Prime Minister is laying out a political marker as a reset to this crisis. Unfortunately, I think he knows that this is going to be much more challenging than he is currently letting on. What he's trying to do is set out a series of markers so that he can point back to them politically. I don't think it's done anything for Australians. What they should be doing is bringing the public into their trust, explaining a clear plan about how to get through this crisis and how, if we work together, we will get through it together. But I think he's just looking at it all through the lens of politics and how it will frame him.

Laura Jayes: It looks like we're heading towards rapidly towards a COVID era of spending. We've got the excise cut $2.5 billion, which your side of politics supported. Now there's talk of a billion dollars in subsidies for business to help them get through these tough times. How much spending are you going to actually support here?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, let's be clear that we put forward a plan for excise cuts with inflation offsets, and the government has done it without inflation offsets. We will look at every decision and assess it on its merits, but I remain acutely focused on making sure that the inflation fire that was burning before this crisis isn't given oxygen. I think the reality is the government is going to give it a lot of oxygen. So rather than snuffing out the inflation fire, they're going to continue to pour more debt onto it and fuel it. And that obviously concerns me. And I think it's a concern because what they're doing, to every Australian, because they're essentially giving money with one hand, but they're inflating the economy. Then they're go to tax the inflation. So they got to take it back. And Australian standards of living will decline in the process.

Laura Jayes: That's right, but you've already supported $2.5 billion of this spending, you did it in parliament, so how much more are you going to support?

Tim Wilson MP: As I said, we'll look at everything on its merits and the situation, but I've been very clear that we should have had inflation offsets in the context of the fuel excise cut. The government has chosen not to do that. The extent to which they continue to just pour more debt petrol on the inflation fire is going to be one that we're obviously going to have to look at very closely. Australians need assistance and help. That's not in contest. The question is, do you do it in a prudent or responsible way. I remember during COVID, and despite what they say now, Labor always said we weren't spending enough. My view was somewhat contrarian and I thought we were spending probably a bit too much, and I think that ultimately was proven to be right. The question is, are they going to pour debt, petrol on the inflation fire and based on the PM's announcement so far, the answer seems to be yes.

Laura Jayes: Yes, but one that you supported, even though those offsets weren't acquiesced to or weren't agreed to by the government. So are you saying that we could have billions more in spending through this crisis and if they are offset, that would be non-inflationary?

Tim Wilson MP: No, no, you're trying to extrapolate a lot of different things. Firstly, the inflation problem existed before this crisis. This crisis, I am not arguing, was absolutely going to contribute further with the context of fuel. The question is how the government is going to respond to it and what Australians are going to need. The government clearly has a lot more information about the state of this crisis and where it's heading than they're telling the public. And that's what worries me, both because they should be bringing the public into their trust. They should be explaining a clear pathway of how they're going to navigate it. Instead, we have the Prime Minister saying, it's the free markets fault. I'm sorry. Firstly, you know, the actions by the United States government is a government action. Secondly, one of the reasons why we are more exposed than we should be is because for two decades, Labor, Greens and more recently the Teals, have said we shouldn't have any fossil fuel capacity in this country, so investments have not been made. This has been a direct design of government policy. And so we need to be very clear-eyed about the need that we need, obviously, domestic capacity. We need to manage any pathway around energy supply, the economic consequences of budget measures will have to be assessed based on what their impact's going to be and whether it's necessary. But when the government won't tell us what's happening, and they seem to be keeping a lot of things under wraps and a bit secret, it's hard to project out what exactly is the consequences of their response is going to.

Laura Jayes: Sure, but I'm trying, I mean, good governments are born out of having a strong Opposition. I'm try to get an idea from you about where the spending should stop. I mean just on the fuel excise, yet we're giving people $20 off a tank of fuel. Let's suggest for a moment that most people fill up once a week if they do a lot of driving. We're in a lot a trouble as a country, aren't we if most households, I'm not talking about low income, but if most households cannot absorb $20 a week. With a budget like it is, why we spend $2.5 billion on giving people $20 off a tank of fuel, which is $20 a week for the next three months and we can't absorb that, surely that money could be spent in a better way if we're looking down the barrel of a prolonged crisis.

Tim Wilson MP: Well, the government gets to decide the agenda, we get to decide how we respond in terms of the context of the crisis.

Laura Jayes: You gave him a free pass on that one, Tim.

Tim Wilson MP: Politely, I don't think that's fair. We very clearly said there should be inflationary offsets associated with it. It's time stamped as well.

Laura Jayes: How does offsetting it make it non-inflationary? Because you've got more money in the economy.

Tim Wilson MP: Well, except, we argued strongly there should be inflation offsets where you take money out of the economy and stop the government continuing to pour debt petrol on the inflation fire. We will be looking very closely, and I can assure you, I am somebody who is laser-like on this, on how they're going be spending their money, the public's money, and what the consequences of it are going to be, because Australians will no doubt be facing big challenges. We need to be mindful and empathetic to people's situation, but we also need to give people reassurance that we can't start this crisis one way and make it compounding worse and keep pushing things off to the future. And this is going to be one of the big challenges of political leadership in this time. I'm not pretending otherwise.

Laura Jayes: Yeah, okay. Just one more question here, because we had this address to the nation last night. Calm down, everyone. Enjoy your Easter. Don't use fuel where you don't need to. But this morning, just hours later, we've got talk of perhaps fuel rationing coming in. Those two messages are quite ridiculous, okay? So calm down, but you've got the fuel excise. Fuel's cheaper now, so people are going to go, oh, okay, rationing might come in the next couple of weeks, it's really cheap now, aren't people just going to rush out to the petrol stations? And this is something that you've really tacitly supported.

Tim Wilson MP: I'm sorry, that's not right. We didn't give the speech to the nation last night and we didn't go out there and say these things this morning. The reality of it is that the Prime Minister is responding and trying to manage politically this crisis. What we need him to do is elevate and be the leader we need for the country. You know, he's in charge of the country, his job is to be Prime Minister at the moment, we need to be a Prime Minister, not simply the Leader of the Labor Party. And that means making the right decisions, bring the public in confidence, and taking people on the process and the journey of how we're going to get through this crisis. He clearly knows more than he is letting us know, as are the Australian people and certainly the opposition. Leadership is not just politically managing the problem or the situation. It is understanding you're elected to a position of responsibility to exercise that office on behalf of the country. It's a time for him to rise to the occasion. Instead, he's sending out political messages. To get through the day.

Laura Jayes: Tim Wilson, we're going to leave it there. We've got a rocket launch to get to, so enjoy that. We'll see you soon.

Tim Wilson MP: You mean I'm not the rocket?

ENDS