Tuesday 5 August 2025

E&OE..............

Karl Stefanovic: 

Welcome back. More now on the Chinese national accused of covertly collecting information in Canberra and charged with reckless foreign interference. Joining us to discuss today's headlines is Amanda Rishworth and Shadow Minister for Small Business, Tim Wilson. Good morning guys, nice to see you. So Amanda, first up to you, how did you respond to this yesterday?

Amanda Rishworth: 

Well firstly, I think it's very reassuring that our agencies have disrupted this. I think the message is very, very clear that if you are looking to interfere with our communities or threaten our communities, we have no tolerance here and you will...

Karl Stefanovic:

It's a bit disconcerting it happened to right under our noses in Canberra.

Amanda Rishworth:

Well look, you know, as we know, our security agencies have indicated that there does, there is foreign interference that happens in this country, but if it's going to interfere with our community groups, the message is clear, that the law will catch up with you, the police will find you.

Karl Stefanovic:

Tim, this after Albo's big tour of China, can we ever really trust China?

Tim Wilson:

Well we can never allow ourselves to be anything other than vigilant against foreign actors that want to interfere in communities for their various reasons and so Amanda's right. It's good that our agencies caught the interference. We need to make sure that we remain ever vigilant and particularly for our diaspora communities to be mindful of the fact that there will be actors that will try and make sure they interfere with them and to be able to feed information back.

Karl Stefanovic:

Okay, moving on, the New South Wales Coalition want to introduce a pay system for repeat protesters following that mammoth march across the Sydney Harbour Bridge at the weekend. Amanda, as it stands, costs are currently incurred by taxpayers and it was hefty on the weekend, is that something you'd be okay with?

Amanda Rishworth:

Well firstly I would say that people do have a right to peaceful protest, that's really important and I would note that by all accounts the protest on the weekend was peaceful because people feel very strongly about issues and they want to express that. In terms of further legislation that is entirely a matter for the New South Wales Parliament, Coalition, the New south Wales Government, but people do have a right to express themselves and obviously people feel very, very strongly about this. I was very reassured that the protest was indeed peaceful on the weekend.

Karl Stefanovic:

Tim, it's looking like the government will formally recogniSe Palestinian statehood any day now, have you got a problem with that?

Tim Wilson: 

Well, I'm concerned that we're rewarding terrorism. We know full well that Hamas has a long history of using Palestinian and Israeli civilians as cannon fodder in their propaganda war. And if we then go on and simply reward that sort of behaviour, it then raises serious questions about what they'll do thereafter. So we need to be very clear. We need to be very cautious about what type of behaviour we're awarding as a country, because it'll be civilians that pay the price.

Karl Stefanovic:

Overnight, I think it was 600 former Israeli security officers and personnel have urged the U.S. now to impress upon Netanyahu that the war needs to end. They say Hamas is no longer a threat, so what are we waiting for?

Amanda Rishworth:

Well firstly I would say that it's been a long standing bipartisan position to have a two state solution. Of course as Minister Wong has said in the past, the two states and recognition of Palestine is not the end of the process. Obviously Hamas is a challenge and there is no role, there cannot be any role for Hamas in a future Palestinian state.

Karl Stefanovic:

I guess that's hard to guarantee.

Amanda Rishworth:

But it is...we do have to move forward with this. There is...it is a very difficult issue, and so, obviously, there'll continue to be discussions across the international community.

Karl Stefanovic:

Days, weeks away.

Amanda Rishworth:

Oh look, I will leave that to Minister Wong, but as the Prime Minister said, it's not an if, it's a when.

Karl Stefanovic:

Okay, meantime, Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke has revealed he's blocking visas for potentially divisive visitors at unprecedented rates. Tim, you wouldn't have a problem with that either, would you?

Tim Wilson: 

I'm cautious because what it does is empower the Minister. The Minister himself, in 2018, advocated...

Karl Stefanovic:

It's not like you guys ever blocked anyone coming in.

Tim Wilson:

No, but the Minister himself in 2018 advocated for a visa for somebody who believed in the enslavement or the punishment of homosexuals and the subjugation of women. You need to make sure that there are clear guidelines that are broadly equally applicable if people are going to advocate for harm against Australians. The standards should be consistent, not based on what the Minister simply decides, based on the whim of the day or his political considerations.

Karl Stefanovic:  

Okay, what kinds of people is he stopping at?

Amanda Rishworth:

Well firstly I would say this has been a long-standing practice and it is absolutely people that are here to sow discord in our community. I mean people have the right for freedom of speech in this country but that doesn't extend to granting visas to people who have an intention to sow discord in our community.

Karl Stefanovic:

I also note with interest that we're allowing another 25,000 students, university students into the country. We've got enough accommodation for all those students.

Amanda Rishworth:

Well, of course, we are the first government to actually put some limits on international students, and that's a really important piece of architecture. We, of, course, put obligations on universities to build accommodation also, but we have to get the balance right. International education is an important part of our economy.