Wednesday 13 May 2026

Transcript - Interview with 4BC Drive

Topics: Federal budget

E&OE....

Gary Hardgrave: The last budget was also a betrayal to those who thought "Ah, I don't know. Peter Dutton's opposition 12 months ago wasn't worth voting for." So they voted Labor, gave Labor a second chance, their first full budget since the election. And it's basically been a pack of lies. Everything they said before the election they broke after the election. Politicians lie I guess, I don't like the sound of it. But the idea of giving you a $250 tax offset, 13 million working Australians are going to get something akin to a very small coffee a week in less tax starting in 27/28. But they're going to drag another $450 on average out of some of the low-income people. I mean there's everything about it. The change to capital gains tax, moving to an inflation-based model. That's the way it used to be. Landlords losing out, they'll no longer be able to use negative gearing on properties bought from now on. The Commonwealth Bank is saying it's akin to like six interest rate rises in one hit. There's some exemption for new builds. It's complicated, going to need tens of thousands of public servants to oversight it. The deficit, the difference between what comes in and what goes out. We got $28.2 billion short. Government's spending too much. They've got to cut spending. They've got to cut migration. They've got to cut taxes, get the private sector going. $31 billion next year is going to be the deficit. As far as the eye can see for a decade and beyond. Economic growth is going to slow due to the global oil shock, I guess, caused by the war in Iran. But you couldn't let the mad mullahs have the weapons of destruction like nuclear could you?. Shadow Treasurer Tim Wilson's got to keep a close eye on that. He's joining us now from Canberra. Good to talk to you Tim, thank you for your time. I don't know mate, have I got it right?. The government is out to create division, got three flags, no unity and now we've got young and old hating each other, this is crazy.

Tim Wilson: Thanks for having me. Well the Prime Minister's trying to start fights over Sunday roast between parents and grandparents and their children in this budget. That was their objective and that's what they've kickstarted. The whole budget is just built on bad faith. It's bad faith because they've clearly broken promises. Bad faith because they went to the election saying they'd improve people's real wages, they've gone backwards by 3% over the life of this government. It's built on bad faith because they're saying it's all about increasing number of home owners but their own budget documents admit they'll build 35,000 fewer homes. Bad faith because they're going to increase the price of rents. Now last time I checked people tended to rent before they bought their first home. And they're going after people's capital gains. So, apart from the fact the Prime Minister said you know multiple times over, 50 times over he wasn't going to change the taxes. There are so many people who are waking up this morning and realizing that their share portfolio or other investments are about to be hit in a way they never expected.

Gary Hardgrave: So Tim Wilson go and have a look at the Greens manifesto. Have a read of it tonight, I can give you the dot points. It is what Jim Chalmers announced last night.

Tim Wilson: 50 years ago.

Gary Hardgrave: Yeah, sure you did. I've never looked at it before, I feel like I've lost my innocence as I've read it. Because Jim Chalmers obviously he's got no problem getting it through the the Parliament because the Greens are going to say "hey, you wrote what we would have written".

Tim Wilson: Well this is the problem of what happens when people vote for a government with such a track record of dishonesty and then just throw them back in again thinking it won't be cost-free. The lesson they learned from their first term was that they could get away with lying to the public. And now they're seeking to double down on it. At the end of the day Australians are not going to be better off, they're not going to be further ahead. But more than that, they're actually, you know the real thing they're taxing is aspiration. Where you know the next generation of Australians looks to the horizon with a sense of confidence and optimism that "if I work hard I'll get ahead". Instead they're largely telling people to sit down where they are and stay where they are. And they're rather a sit-down economy than a stand-up economy.

Gary Hardgrave: And and that's the problem. Labor governments should, and indeed Liberal governments should, always back the workers, the aspirational middle class. Everybody, Tim Wilson, everybody wants to be a bit richer. Everybody goes to work every day hoping that this is the week they get ahead. And now they've just kicked them in the shin.

Tim Wilson: Well I'd say they've knee-capped young Australians in particular because to the extent that there have been any grandfathering arrangements there for those who are already established, which you know are largely older Australians. They've been protected from a lot of these changes while young Australians have just had the ladder of opportunity ripped up from them before they can get the first foot on the rung. So, you've got a knee-capping of ambition, a knee-capping of young Australians and a knee-capping of their sense of aspiration. That isn't the type of country we should want to build.

Gary Hardgrave: I look, you're the Shadow Treasurer, so you've got to deal with the technicals. I just hope, I mean this sincerely, that you don't get caught up in the minutiae of this. I think that people desperately want to use the Labor analogy, the "light on the hill". That vision, that aspiration, that where the next generation is going to be stuff. Are you, is the Liberal Party going to stand up for workers?.

Tim Wilson: Resolutely yes. Tomorrow night you'll have Angus Taylor's budget reply speech where he's going to outline where he wants to take the economy and the nation. Next week I've got a National Press Club speech because I agree with you, you can get caught up in the weeds about you know moving point... dot point here or there and the detail of it. This is about what we actually, where we want to take Australia to build a better future for the next generation so they can look to the horizon with confidence, optimism and understand that hard work pays off. That they feel respected by their government and by each other. And more importantly they feel like a sense of control over their lives and that's exactly what this budget seeks to assault.

Gary Hardgrave: I gave the big hint to Jim Chalmers, I'm not afraid to give it Tim Wilson. And that is that you needed to announce a cut in the size of government, a cut in the size of migration to take pressure out of the housing sector and cut taxes. Because we've got to get the private sector going, the private sector right now are beating retreat.

Tim Wilson: Yeah, well we've got record small business insolvencies. This year government expenditure is going to continue to outgrow private investment and the private economy. And and that's the problem, the government is taking over the nation. And it's not because it's doing things that are growing the economy or being more productive. Instead it's more of a sit-down economy of feeding things like the NDIS which we know is laden with corruption and fraud. The government themselves have admitted that. And we've got to fix it and we've got to actually build a future for this country that actually takes advantage of its natural wealth, puts people to work, puts capital to work to grow a future that's better for not just the people who apply their effort but for all of us.

Gary Hardgrave: So what about this deficit?. At some stage down the track, God willing, this government is gone and it may well be a One Nation, Liberal, National coalition. So I wouldn't be killing off the prospect of that, it could well be that Tim. I've got to tell you, outer suburban Brisbane's different to inner suburban Melbourne where your seat is. I've got to tell you and regional Australia has a different and pretty strong view about the fact that One Nation seem to be the only one with clarity on this sort of stuff. But seriously, whatever's the next government, we've got to start dealing honestly, openly with the fact that we have a massive deficit forecast and a massive debt forecast to be $1.5 trillion by the end of this decade. I mean this is frightening stuff.

Tim Wilson: Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. And yes you're right, we need to confront it with the nature and what's driving it. We need to cut out the fraud and corruption that's contributing to it and we need to get the budget under control. But there's multiple parts to that, you've got to cut spending as you said. You've got to build out though growth in the economy so that we're actually raising tax revenue. At the moment the only way the government is raising tax revenue is they're using public money to stoke inflation, to tax inflation and then they get the inflation in and spend it again. They're inflating themselves constantly in the economy constantly. That's why Australians are going falling behind. That's why real wages, when you go to the supermarket, feels like it's buying less. We've calculated that the average Australian couple with the average Australian mortgage has $32,000 less a year as a consequence of higher interest rates, lower incomes and higher taxes under this government.

Gary Hardgrave: You're sitting on the wrong side of the chamber to change anything but are you going to, Scotty's just said it's great for the Shadow Treasurer to come out and criticize, but when will we see a big call from them to change the broken tax system?. I think you've got to reincentivize individual reward.

Tim Wilson: Couldn't agree with you more. But as I said, tomorrow night Angus Taylor is giving his budget reply speech, next Wednesday I'm giving a speech to the National Press Club because I think this is about building a project for Australia that actually gives people hope and confidence for the future, particularly to back in the self-starters of this country. Because they're the ones who go on and build small businesses, they're the ones who go on and employ other Australians. And if we're not backing them, if we're not supporting them every step of the way, then we are trying to build a country out of a house of cards.

Gary Hardgrave: Nothing for Queensland of any substance, nothing for Brisbane, we've got these Olympics in 2032. Our Bruce Highway, Cairns is as far from Brisbane as Hobart is just a ramshackle deadly track. There's a whole lot of stuff that's nation-building that should be done. We've got to preserve this, we've got to start selling the concept of building a country, a nation of people that are confident Tim Wilson. You've got a lot of work to do to win a lot of people back because right now no one's really listening to the Liberals I'm afraid.

Tim Wilson: Well I agree there's a lot of work to to do and and there's a lot of work to rebuild trust. But the focus has to be to make sure that we get there because the country counts on us doing it. The reality is you need a government that's going to unite the country, that brings everybody together whether they're in Cairns, whether in Melbourne or whether over in Perth or anywhere in between. And it needs to be anchored in a set of values which is seeks to fill people with a sense of hope and optimism and more importantly aspiration for the future. Because it's not like politicians build this country. It's average Australians who build this country and it's through their hard work, their enterprise and their effort with families and communities that people get ahead. Bit of work, I agree, I'm going to get on with it.

Gary Hardgrave: Well anytime you're in Brisbane drop by, we'll talk face-to-face next time. Good on you Tim Wilson, appreciate it. Tim Wilson, Member for Goldstein in Melbourne. And look, there's a different take on all this stuff in different places. And yes I know he said he couldn't work with One Nation but look, this is not really the day for that. I put it to him that he's got to, they've got to bring themselves together. The real enemy is the Greens manifesto which could have been written in Beijing that Jim Chalmers followed last night for the budget. That's the problem. Australia is being changed last night. It's really, really killing our economy.