Sunday, 9 August 

Transcript 

Interview - Sunday Agenda, News24

Topics: Gambling reform; NDIS inquiry; Widow’s tax; Migration; CFMEU corruption; Aged care corruption; RBA, Interest rates; One Nation

E&OE……………………..

Andrew Clennell: All right, joining me live from Melbourne, the Shadow Treasurer Tim Wilson. Tim Wilson, thanks for joining us.

Tim Wilson: Thank you for having me, Andrew.

Andrew Clennell: Let's start with the government's gambling advertising reforms. You would have heard me talk about them earlier. Do you think the opposition is inclined to pass this legislation this week or do you think some in your party room want to push for tougher measures?

Tim Wilson: Well, I think the conversation is around how we get an open dialogue with the government around what we can constructively pass through the parliament. Of course, people have a diversity of views and frankly, we're not a party where people take a full-frontal lobotomy by signing up to a party like the Labor Party. People have their opinions, they're welcome, they should be free to air them in the party room and to express a way forward. Our focus, I think, should continue to be how we protect children, particularly around gambling advertising and making sure that in any negotiation we're getting the best outcome for the Australian people. We're not wowsers, we do believe in protecting children, particularly from harm.

Andrew Clennell: Three ads an hour all day, except for school pickup and drop off, doesn't seem that big of a difference, does it?

Tim Wilson: Well, let's wait and see because part of it's about the detail. For instance, under the government's proposed bill, it doesn't limit the capacity to advertise to children and that's something that I'm concerned about, making sure that we've got the measures that are consistent, appropriate, and also reflecting the changing nature of technology, because, you know, while of course a lot of people watch sports as an example on television, there are a lot of other platforms people watch sports these days and receive gambling advertising as well.

Andrew Clennell: Can you confirm the opposition is pushing for more action on gambling company inducements?

Tim Wilson: I can't confirm anything that we're having discussions with government. We're having those in conversations at the moment and of course that's led by of course our Shadow Minister Sarah Henderson who's doing an outstanding job in this space. What we need to make sure is that the interests are in alignment, we're protecting children and of course we're making sure that measures are taken so that people aren't taken advantage of. There's a fine balance there, but the way to have that conversation is with the government on legislation. The government has been dragged kicking and screaming to introduce this legislation from a pressure particularly from the opposition and we look forward to having those constructive discussions in the coming days.

Andrew Clennell: Well, let's talk about the NDIS, just talking to the Minister, Jenny McAllister, about it. Why did the opposition push this to a Senate inquiry? Are you for the government's attempts to make savings here or not?

Tim Wilson: Well, as you know, the government shut down any conversation around their federal budget for the taxes they didn't take to the Australian people. They had two days of hearings. We were prepared to work a pathway to make sure that there was a bigger conversation on that, but of course the government's gone off and done a deal with the Greens to have this long inquiry. I mean you just listened to Jenny McAllister, she's clearly been taking lessons from the Prime Minister where there is no deceit, there is no spin, there is no lie that the government won't tell. During the previous government, we made constant attempts to try and cut back the corruption, the fraud in the system. Labor opposed it every step of the way. It was only when they came to government and Bill Shorten basically turned around and said actually the former government was right, we should have stopped the corruption, we should have stopped the fraud and they've allowed it to continue on. That's why we have now the NDIA projecting somewhere around 10% of the whole scheme is going towards fraud and corruption and that growth continues.

Andrew Clennell: Yeah, and they say they need this bill to address that, so will you wrap up the inquiry this week and get on with passing the bill?

Tim Wilson: Well, as always, we'll engage constructively if the government wants to have a conversation around passage of legislation, but the primary focus of the government seems to be to target clients, not corruption. They wouldn't support us when we tried to shut down fraud and corruption when we were in government. We consistently raise issues of fraud and corruption when we've been in opposition, and now their target seems to be to target clients rather than corruption.

Andrew Clennell: What's the exact measures do you that you want to combat corruption then, that they don't have in the bill? What do you want?

Tim Wilson: Well, I'm going to leave that of course to Melissa McIntosh to have that conversation and to be our spokesperson on that, but it's very clear to me that the government has allowed an ongoing tolerance where we have people who are awarding either packages to people when they shouldn't be used, we're having people taking advantage of the system and we know this is being exposed and so as a consequence we've seen this massive growth continue to go on and we need to make sure that that's the focus, not the targeting of the clients. You know, if you go out to voters in Australia, there are a lot of people who are on disability support packages who are very nervous about their future and it's because of how this government has looked at reforms and they feel like they're being targeted, not the fraudsters.

Andrew Clennell: What do you make of the government's claim that this inquiry has already cost the budget one billion dollars?

Tim Wilson: Well, then, in addition to that is the tens of billions of dollars when they did nothing and they actively blocked a former Coalition government to do anything and so that's part of the problem. Every day it continues to go on without some form of redress, it continues to accrue money. It's done that over the entire four years in government, when they blocked us when we were previously in government, it was doing it then. We need to make sure the system is sustainable. The idea that we would have a disability support program costing more than example Medicare, shows you just how unsustainable the position has now got, how important it is to arrest, but the government has been dragged kicking and screaming to fix the corruption in the NDIS, they haven't done it voluntarily.

Andrew Clennell: What's your view of the government's back down on the so-called widow's tax? Are there any more hidden nasties in this tax package in your view?

Tim Wilson: Well, the budget has had a series of tax landmines that they've laid across the economy and it's like they've forgotten where they're put. They've slowly been exploding and now they're trying to figure out how to diffuse them. So, as soon as the widow's tax has been highlighted and that's exploded, they've realized they got to step back from that. They were targeting and directly hitting small businesses as they started to realise the full scale of the consequences, that's exploded and they've had to back down. But, the changes to the trusts regime is going to open a whole new range of landmines that I don't think they even thought about. What we're going to see is people changing structures, triggering finance re-valuations, and it's going to raise a lot more issues than the government seems to understand. And, of course, if you talk to financial planners, you talk to accountants, you talk to lawyers, they'll all tell you that this budget has a long way to go yet and the government won't raise the revenue they think, but they will create havoc in the economy.

Andrew Clennell: The RBA meets this Tuesday, do you think they should keep interest rates on hold?

Tim Wilson: Well, that's a decision for them, but the real issue is whether the government should stop spending and daring the RBA to increase interest rates. The problem we have is the government cannot stop its addiction to spending. They stoke inflation, they then tax inflation, they then spend that inflation again in a vicious cycle and they're daring the Reserve Bank to increase interest rates. As we know, the Reserve Bank has said explicitly and the Reserve Bank governor has said explicitly, government spending is a key contributor to our inflation pressure and interest rate pressure. Inflation was a problem before Iran. It's a problem now, and if the Iran conflict is resolved as it has been at points, inflation and interest rates persist. Australian households desperately need relief, but they cannot deliver that relief. The RBA can't deliver lower interest rates until the government stops its inflation and spending addiction.

Andrew Clennell: On immigration, would you support a move by the government to crack down on some visas and increase the number of construction workers coming into the country?

Tim Wilson: Well, what I'd be open to considering is a plan if it was actually publicly released. As we know during the week, Tony Burke was scheduled to give a National Press Club speech, he had to abort that speech, the Prime Minister had clearly overridden him and they haven't come up with their own plans, but we've said consistently we'll support a cut in migration because we need to make sure that our program is sustainable. Most importantly, because we need people who are going to come to our country to come, to commit, and to contribute to our nation, they need to be economically integrated, socially integrated, and culturally integrated because if you come to this country, we want you to love it, we want you to make sure that you then go on and contribute to growth and build a better future for Australians.

Andrew Clennell: Do you want to see house prices drop for young people?

Tim Wilson: Well, I want to see them more affordable for young people, but the government's schemes have actually pushed up the price for first home buyers in particular. And I've used this example many times before, only 12 months ago you could buy an apartment in my electorate in the suburb of Glen Huntly for sub $300,000. Once the government introduced its 5% home deposit scheme, they've been pushed up into the mid $300,000s. So, what we're seeing is adjustments around house prices across the country, but it's not at the bottom end, they're going up. But at the higher ends, they're coming down. That isn't improving the capacity for young Australians to be able to go on and own their own home. This is where the government's spin is not meeting up with reality. They're actually making it harder, Andrew, to buy your first home. The price of rents is going up, we've seen that particularly in Victoria, but the same policies are now being implemented nationwide. We've got you know never forget Anthony Albanese's housemate once was Dan Andrews. Anthony Albanese has exported the corrupt and failed Victorian model nationwide, and now he's imposing exactly the same failed plan on Australia and it will not end well.

Andrew Clennell: How's he exported a corrupt plan nationwide, sorry?

Tim Wilson: Well, the Victorian corrupt model has been, how do they borrow from the future to feed the Labor Party ecosystem today, Increase taxes on property, and every step of the way it's undermined the confidence in the future of Victoria. You just need to look at it. While it's been publicly known that public money has found its way into the hands of organized crime through the CFMEU Labor cartel, Anthony Albanese's only solution has to be open the taxpayer's cheque book, get a giant tax cheque out and write it out to organized crime courtesy of the CFMEU Labor cartel.

Andrew Clennell: Are you accusing the Prime Minister of fostering corruption? Is that what you're doing right now?

Tim Wilson: I'm absolutely saying that when it's known that public money has found its way into the hands of organized crime in Victoria, the federal government has continued to write taxpayers' cheques to those projects where money has ended up in the hands of organized crime. That's on the public record. He's the one who should be answering for it. What I find astounding, frankly Andrew, is that how…

Andrew Clennell: Let's get this very clear. Are you saying that he has deliberately helped foster corruption, the Prime Minister?

Tim Wilson: The federal government, under this government, has written cheques to Victorian Big Build projects where we've known that that money has ended up in the hands of organized crime through the CFMEU-Labor cartel. That's not in contest. That's on the public record. The question really for me is why is Canberra's media so disinterested in this and why do they continue to take so little interest in the connection between the federal Labor government writing taxpayers' cheques to the Victorian government, and to projects that we know on the public record ends up in the hands of organized crime. I wrote to the Prime Minister and explicitly asked him, can you audit the federal money that has gone to these projects which have now been found to go to organized crime and they have simply refused to acknowledge the letter, refused to respond, or to do an audit trail. Why don't you ask him about that?

Andrew Clennell: When did you send that letter?

Tim Wilson: I sent it about December last year, if I recall correctly, maybe it was early January, but it was it was a while ago.

Andrew Clennell: You haven't had a response.

Tim Wilson: No.

Andrew Clennell: Okay. Are you going promising to have lower deficits than Labor?

Tim Wilson: Well, we'll wait and see what their budget position is as they go up to the next election. There's going to be two more budgets potentially before the next federal election. So, I will wait and see where we get to, but our objective is always to make sure that we tax as little as possible, we're prudent, because every time the government goes on and overspends, they inflate the economy, they force the hand of the Reserve Bank to increase interest rates and Australian households go backwards. And I don't want that for our country. I want a nation where Australians know that hard work is going to pay off, they feel in control of their lives, and they feel a basic sense of respect and that doesn't happen when public money goes towards funding corruption.

Andrew Clennell: You seem to talk about corruption a lot. You spoke last week about corruption in the aged care sector you wanted to get rid of. What evidence do you have of that?

Tim Wilson: Well, we know that there's been reports of just like with the NDIS, big open schemes that have been taken advantage of corruption and fraudsters in exactly the same way as the NDIS. So, the government's in charge of these schemes, we know there's reports of them, there's been reports and in childcare schemes where phantom children have been enrolled and this has gone all the way to courts. This is the problem. Labor has no control over their budget, they have completely thrown open public schemes for people to raid and take advantage of and yes, I am very concerned about corruption. We've seen the Victorian model exported to Canberra and as a consequence, we now see a massive amount of programs, public programs that are being taken advantage of by the dishonest, funded by the taxpayers of honest Australians.

Andrew Clennell: Given your concerns over corruption, have you made any referrals to the National Anti-Corruption Commission?

Tim Wilson: I don't believe I have, but it's not normal practice to talk about those things.

Andrew Clennell: I just wonder if you've got so much concern over so many elements of corruption that you're accusing the government of, why you haven't made any referrals or complaints to the National Anti-Corruption Commission.

Tim Wilson: Well, most of these things I'm trying to highlight are in the public square and because the problem is systemic back to the Labor Party itself. As I said already on this program, we know that public money has found its way into the hands of organized crime through the CFMEU-Labor cartel in Victoria. The response from the federal government has been to write a bigger cheque to that pathway. I find it extraordinary that so many journalists seem disinterested in this subject matter and seem disinterested in whether it's going to be pursued. In fact, I have raised on the ABC…

Andrew Clennell: The NACC is an avenue for you, I guess.

Tim Wilson: I was on Patricia Karvelas' program on the ABC the other day and made the point that I actively raised these topics. She refused to ask questions of me about the corruption in the CFMEU-Labor cartel. Now in Victoria, there's a Royal Commission about it. I think perhaps the media needs to start focusing more on the scale of corruption that goes to the heart, whether it's CFMEU corruption, NDIS corruption, aged care corruption, or childcare corruption, because that's what Australians are looking at right now, Andrew. They're looking and saying, I'm paying honest taxes off honest hard work, I don't feel respected, I don't feel like hard work gets paid off, I don't feel in control of my own life, and it's being taken advantage of by dishonest actors and a dishonest government.

Andrew Clennell: All right, you’ve got a lot of tax policies, really. A lot of its removing super tax measures, CGT, negative gearing, trust taxes, and yet your income tax cuts or all your measures are put up to $110 billion over the forward estimates. How are you going to pay for that if you're elected?

Tim Wilson: Well, we're going to make sure that we have offsets, and we've said that and we'll release those in good time, but we need to make sure we go back and address the systemic issues of corruption that exist at the heart of this government. We've announced, when we've announced measures before, offsets and we'll continue to do so. We're going through that work right now to make sure that we get best value for the Australian taxpayer because we want to have the incentives in place to grow the economy, to give Australians hope, to look at a future horizon where they believe that hard work's going to pay off, Australians are going to feel in control of their lives, and they're going to feel a basic sense of respect about how we're going to be able to get ahead together.

Andrew Clennell: You continue to trail one nation in the polls by some distance. There's an Age poll today in Victoria which has One Nation winning 17 seats, which means, it's a YouGov poll, Jess Wilson wouldn't even get a majority down there. Someone who used to work for Senator Jane Hume, who's running at the state level, is Colleen Harkin for One Nation. I believe she hails from your seat, part of your organisation. What do you know about her and what do you think of her defection to One Nation?

Tim Wilson: My focus is on how we get a fresh start for Victoria, Andrew, and the only way you're going to get that is a Wilson-led government, and it's really the chance for Victoria to cut ties with the past, with the endemic corruption of the current state government, and particularly to send Labor packing and for people to understand the scale of what has actually happened in this state where they've continued to increase taxes to feed the ecosystem of the Labor Party at the expense of Victorian taxpayers. The only way you're going to get that is a fresh start led by Jess Wilson and her team, a united team with a plan, because we desperately need a Wilson-led government in Victoria.

Andrew Clennell: These tax measures by the federal government have been quite controversial. The best opportunity for the opposition in a long time, in my view, yet we haven't seen that much of you, Tim Wilson. We've seen a lot more of Angus Taylor out there. Why haven't you been out there campaigning a bit more and has the leader taken a position to do more? And where's the pithy statement to campaign against these changes, like Labor's tax on aspiration or Labor's tax on house prices? Do you concede you could do more and you could get the messaging a bit better?

Tim Wilson: Well, I've always believed that we can do more and I always think we can improve, but the focus has to be on how we're making sure we're getting messages out. I've spent the past, you know, two weeks just running around different parts of the country, but I'm connecting directly with voters, and talking directly to voters about the issues of concern to them and campaigning on these tax measures as Angus Taylor is, and yes, the leader has been doing a lot of media, and I think that's fantastic. I want him to continue to do that, and I'll continue to do that. I'm not sure that I'm shy and retiring. Last time I chequeed, I think I was on your program right now, and quite happy to argue the case uh against Labor's toxic taxes, but it's the end of the interview and you've only just asked me about them, and I've tried to inject it every point of the way through this conversation, because we need to make sure uh that Australians hard hard-earned savings and sacrifice is respected. This government went to the last election promising 50 times over until the Prime Minister was red in the face that he wouldn't introduce these taxes, so, there's the basis of a lie there, has gone on and done so, and we know these toxic taxes undermine the sense of hope, aspiration, and confidence Australians have, and the government is going to continue to wear that pain.

Andrew Clennell: And we thank you for coming on too, Tim Wilson, but just finally, in a recent piece in the Good Weekend, I had to ask you about this line, you compared yourself to Tigger from Winnie the Pooh. Can you talk us through that?

Tim Wilson: Well, I didn't compare myself to Tigger from Winnie the Pooh. What I said was I think he's the best character in Winnie the Pooh, because he's lively and full of energy. I mean, I'm lively and full of energy, as I hope I'm demonstrating in your program, because there's enormous task ahead. We have to save Australia from the worst government nationally we've ever had that's exported the corrupt model in Victoria up to the nation, that's been doing things like writing out cheques to projects, knowing that that money is going to end up in the hands of organized crime, knowing that Australians are feeling a diminishing sense of confidence and pride in their nation because they don't feel that hard work is paying off, that they're in control of their lives, or there's a basic sense of respect. I'll fight energetically every step of the way to make sure that we build a better future for Australians so that young Australians can go on and save, get a good education, be able to buy a home, and be able to support a family and retire with security one day. That should be our dream and aspiration. The only answer Anthony Albanese has is higher taxes.

Andrew Clennell: Tim Wilson, thanks so much for your time.

Tim Wilson: Thank you, Andrew.

[ENDS]