Tuesday, 2 December 2025

E&OE

Peter Stefanovic: Joining us now is the Shadow IR Minister Tim Wilson. Tim, if the government is starting this conversation about guidelines and advice, what would your submission be, particularly in the workplace?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, our key focus will be making sure that Australians continue to be employed and they have well-paying jobs. But I think the critical part is that if there's any productivity dividend from AI, that it's shared by employees. It can't just be to the boon or benefit of employers. We need globally competitive businesses. We need artificial intelligence to be integrated into that, but it needs to be a win-win for employment and for businesses so that we grow the Australian economy.

Peter Stefanovic: Are you excited about it or worried about it?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, I'm ultimately optimistic, but if we get the policy settings right, to date the government until today has largely tried to attack artificial intelligence. I think they've had a reality check that that's not sustainable. So now they're looking at how do they do light touch regulation because they don't really have an answer. I think we need to be confident, we need to give people hope, particularly for small businesses, because they're the ones who win the most.

Peter Stefanovic: Well the unions have previously been big on this with concerns that this is going to lead to job cuts. I mean, is there any certainty that could be given that they wouldn't be?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, it it comes down to what we're going to do to skill people up so that they have the best pathway forward. AI can be part of actually building the future workforce so that they can be successful. But also there's going to be potentially new market opportunities. That's why addressing the issue of AI anxiety is going to come explicitly from small business. So I see a massive opportunity here for small business to thrive because the cost structures for a lot of them are going to collapse. But we've got to give them confidence and hope to lean into it.

Peter Stefanovic: So energy is the really interesting aspect of this and how to power the massive data centres. Is this where nuclear enters the chat?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, eventually nuclear reality will hit the conversation because we know the rate of energy use for data centres continues to increase. Data centres are not measured by the volume of data they hold, they're measured by the amount of energy they consume. And as we're retiring coal or extending coal beyond its existing life, renewables will play a role, but you can't run an energy grid like you can't ship freight using bicycles. You need baseload power, that's why nuclear has to be part of the conversation. The Labor government wants to deny it. There are nuclear deniers on this conversation, but it's going to be a necessary part if we want to be part of building a future Australian economy.

Peter Stefanovic: The problem is though that by the time you could get nuclear here, the AI revolution will be well advanced.

Tim Wilson MP: Well that's why we've got to keep the existing assets going. We've got to build the future as well. And there'll be something beyond AI or next generation AI, which is why we have to get on with the job. Labor's in denial about this. They're going to sink the Australian economy if they don't lean into it. And we're all going to pay the price, including young Australians.

Peter Stefanovic: As someone who was and we've discussed this last week, as someone who was firmly pro net zero, how do you feel about sweating out these coal assets now? And in particular there's a strong argument that Eraring in New South Wales is going to have to be extended by if not one, two years.

Tim Wilson MP: Well, this is already happening in Victoria and New South Wales. They have net zero commitments, but they're continuing to sweat out these assets because we're not replacing base load power. That's why I'm so pro-nuclear and always have been. We've got to be realist about energy. Energy responds to physics and economics. It doesn't respond to the mad ideology of the Albanese government where they think they can build everything off the back of renewables. I use the example of freight very deliberately. You cannot ship the freight of the nation around on bicycles in the same way you cannot build an energy system off the back solely of renewables. You need a mix, you need baseload. If it's not going to be coal, it's got to be something like nuclear. And we're going to need to continue, of course, existing assets while we build out that new future base.

Peter Stefanovic: Hey just a final one here, Tim. We're about to go to Jacinta Allan. She's going to be introducing the adult time for violent crime today. Finally got that right. Took me a few times. But as a Melburnian, how much of an effect do you expect this legislation to have as Jess Wilson already soars in the polls?

Tim Wilson MP: Well this is a rear guard action by the state government because they let crime let loose, particularly youth crime. It's very heavy in the Goldstein electorate, but all over the state. They're trying to do everything to try and address it now, but it's because they let it go off in the first place. Will it have an effect? Maybe over time. It's better to have never let the genie out of the bottle. And because Victorians are paying the price through higher insurance premiums, violent home entries, and car thefts.

Peter Stefanovic: That is true. Tim, thank you.

ENDS