Interview on News24, Paul Murray Live

Thursday, 20 August 2026

Topics: Australia’s $1 trillion Commonwealth debt.

E&OE……………………..

Paul Murray: All right, let's talk about the one trillion dollars when it comes to the debt that has now been passed, and Tim Wilson is the Shadow Treasurer, he joins us right now. Tim, nice to see you. I'm sorry we're here where we finally go over the trillion dollars, but can we just be very clear about what I mentioned a couple of minutes ago, right? Oh, all of it's Liberal debt. Okay. Zero was the number that Howard and Costello handed off to Labor. Swan, Chalmers in his office, and Rudd end up ringing it up. Everyone goes nuts after the 2014 budget, which means you couldn't possibly cut a cent here, there, or everywhere. The pandemic happens, where Jim Chalmers wants us to buy a freaking airline, so yes, it keeps going up. We're now past a trillion dollars, but apparently it was all the Liberal Party's fault. What a set of stones on this guy?

Tim Wilson: Yes. I think, Paul, it would seem to be extraordinary claims, particularly if you go back and look at the footage and the arguments put forward by Labor. They were critical of when the Coalition was actually trying to cut back expenditure in COVID, and, you know, I'm the first to say that I think we spent a lot of money during that time. Labor wanted to spend a heck of a lot more, so it would be a lot worse if they had have had the choice. But I will clarify one thing for you, Paul. You said it in 2007 that we had no debt. Now, that is true, but you've got to remember we were actually saving money at that time. The Future Fund had about $50 billion in the account. Now, Labor, it's an important part of the conversation and the story, it shows you how far as a nation we've fallen. Now, nobody's trying to pretend otherwise, there was a global financial crisis, we can debate whether too much money was spent then like how we spent it during COVID, but at least there were crises. The problem is the only crisis now we have is the Albanese government as it continues to accrue debt, and of course we've tipped over the one trillion dollar level today.

Paul Murray: But also, and again, I know this becomes very difficult because we can have an academic conversation about it, but your words carry weight and inevitably somebody holds up the piece of paper and quotes back the conversation with that evil guy on TV at night. But still, right, we're in this scenario where if you had proposed $64 billion worth of savings to the budget going into the next election, the Labor Party will go nuts and refer to them as cuts. But when they find savings, they're not cuts. So, again, even trying that they've built this box where to save a dollar here means it's been cut as opposed to saving a dollar fifty here because you owe two over there.

Tim Wilson: That's 100% right, but there's the conversation around what we need to do from the cost of taking out of the budget so we don't keep accruing debt, but as you correctly pointed out, there's also the lost opportunity. You think about a number like one trillion and you think about the number of zeros, and it seems quite distant and something to grapple with. For every Australian taxpayer, it amounts to 798 visits to the GP. That is more visits than the overwhelming majority of Australians will do in their entire lifetime. So, your entire primary healthcare cost is now being saddled on the nation's debt and you're now having to finance, and you never got it. This is the problem with debt. It leaves a legacy for future generations. Today's debt is tomorrow's taxes. But even more than that, so much of the debt that's been accrued is then going on and being spent directly on inflationary activity. So, you're actually paying for it today as well. So, until this government takes responsibility, understands the consequences, and actually looks at seriously reducing the cost structures, we're going to continue with this in perpetuity and future generations are the ones who are going to pay.

Paul Murray: Short question, which I'm sure will have a short answer, but then I've got a long one after that. Have you spent a lot of time trying to work out how to deal with this politics of saving equals cuts? Have you have you got an idea, and I’m not asking you to put out the playbook, but because this is how they will always come at an alternative government. This is how they were able to sort of, frankly, BS their way back into power this time, where it's all just how it lands like, you know, like an Olympic swimmer on that one day where they've got to perform, it all sort of lands nice and perfect on an election day regardless of how bad it was six months before or after.

Tim Wilson: Yeah, well, we have, but let's be very clear. This government just lies about things whether it's true or whether it is not. And so, I just come to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter what we do. They're just going to lie about it anyway. So, actually what we're there off doing is being truthful with the Australian people, being frank about the consequences, and putting forward a programme that's actually going to reset and restore our country. Because too much is at stake for these liars, Jim Chalmers, Anthony Albanese, to carry on this way. And, unfortunately, ultimately if the Australian people want to continue to be lied to, it's very hard to get past.

Paul Murray: Yeah. Well, again, you know, microcosm of things is Victoria, your home state, we'll see how all of that goes. Certainly, it becomes hopefully a harbinger of change that may be on its way towards Canberra. Thank you so much, mate. I'm sorry this is the occasion of which we speak, but it's important to know that there are people there trying to fight it. Thank you, mate, appreciate it.

Tim Wilson: Thanks, Paul.

[ENDS]