Friday, 2 October 2026

Topics: compulsory investments in US lamb businesses; superannuation; Kath & Kim economics; spending; the Coalition’s Charter of Budget Honesty; inflation; housing; negative equity; ATO; surcharge ban; small business; Barnaby Joyce

E&OE……………………..

Laura Jayes: Trade Minister Don Farrell wants superannuation funds to invest in US lamb businesses in order for Australia to avoid US tariffs. Join me live now is Shadow Treasurer Tim Wilson. Tim, great to see you. Why is it such a crazy idea?

Tim Wilson: Well, the Australian Labor Party sees superannuation as their national asset, and they're clearly going about using it. They oppose Australians using super to own their own home, but they seem willing to spend Australians’ superannuation money building homes for lambs in the United States. I think it's completely barny, and it's a complete reprioritisation of what the purpose of super is. It isn't about retirement security, it's just Labor's got themselves into an economic and political problem and their answer is to raid Australian superannuation. I remember when during COVID, Australians were allowed to access their own money, and we heard press conferences and it was the biggest scandal in the nation's history. Don Farrell now wants to raid your super and hand it to lamb manufacturers in the United States. Does it need more explanation?

Laura Jayes: Well, yes, superannuation funds are designed to get the best return for all of us in retirement.

Tim Wilson: I look forward to hearing how this is in the best financial interests of members, yes.

Laura Jayes: Is it a bad investment? I mean, if you look at the comparisons between the ASX and American stock market, I mean they would have delivered better returns this year.

Tim Wilson: Yes, but we're talking very specifically about the government directing Australian superannuation money towards the lamb industry specifically to deal with a political problem the Albanese government has had. That is not the same as the Nasdaq, and what's happening with AI shares. I mean, this is, I'm sort of a bit confused why I need to even explain how barny this idea is, but here we are. It's simple, Australian superannuation money is their money, they should be able to control it, it shouldn't be going towards lamb manufacturers in the United States.

Laura Jayes: So, is what you think they were talking about when they described super as a national asset, using it in this way?

Tim Wilson: Well, Labor sees superannuation as their money. Labor sees superannuation as their money and their national asset to direct as they see fit. We know there's been constant attempts by this government to direct superannuation to solve their budgetary problems. This just seems like the latest iteration of that. The one thing though that Labor will never let you do as an Australian is use your super to decide your own future and particularly to have retirement security.

Laura Jayes: Yeah, they’re benefiting out of more tax in super, that's for sure on the Final Budget Outcome. Let's talk about government spending more generally. It is, in part, driving up interest rates, that's a fact. Saying you can cut or need to cut government spending is pretty easy. Identifying where, not so. What is your commitment to spending as a share of GDP if you get back in?

Tim Wilson: Well, we're waiting of course to see the next two budgets between now and the next federal election to make firm commitments, but we've already made a commitment around a Charter of Budget Honesty, which has been completely scrapped by this government, and you can see that obviously in how they approached their budget, but more importantly, the realisation of where their budget position actually gets to. Second, we've made commitments already around scrapping bureaucracies, housing bureaucracies that don't build homes, net zero bureaucracies that don't cut emissions, we've promised around containing welfare for future non-citizens. We've made a series of very substantial announcements already that have focused on how we're going to pull in the belt because we come from a pretty basic view, Laura, which is before the Australian government turns to the Australian people and says, ‘pull in your belt’, perhaps the government should do the same.

Laura Jayes: Do you agree with Phil Coorey's assessment today that it's Kath & Kim economics from the Labor government?

Tim Wilson: I thought that was a cute line. I think the problem is this government has no real sense of constraint. They see themselves as the answer to most problems. We know that they're spending on a 40-year high once you remove the pandemic, we know that if they just pulled their belt in, we'd have $22 billion in surplus for the budget. The problem with this government is they turn around and they say they've saved two bucks, but then they go on and spend three bucks, and Australian households bear the price through higher interest rates, and they go to the supermarket and pay more and get less.

Laura Jayes: Okay, so will you reinstitute these budget rules? This is what Phil Coorey was talking about when he talked about Kath & Kim economics. You’d make that commitment more broadly where you'll stick to these budget rules because, of course, this Labor government threw them out the window and wanted the public to be engaged in a different sort of debate as Jim Chalmers put it at the time, trust us about the quality of what we're spending. I don't think anyone trusts either them or you about quality, so will you put these rules back in place?

Tim Wilson: Well, we've said we'll have a Charter of Budget Honesty, and we'll detail out the components of that around making sure there is prudence and responsibility. But you know, some of us actually still are fiscal conservatives, Laura, some of us…

Laura Jayes: Does that mean fiscal guardrails, though?

Tim Wilson: Well, that will be part of the conversation, yeah. That is part of the conversation that we need to have because it's very clear to me the government cannot continue to spend like it currently is. The biggest concern I have is how much they're going to spend over the coming next two budget cycles. I think we're in really challenging times, Laura, you see what's happening with private credit internationally and in Australia, you see what's happening with bond markets and how much more expensive debt is going to be. I use a simple reference point: the federal budget said that public debt was going to be 4.8 on a 10-year bond yield, it's currently around 5.3 to 5.4. The cost of debt is going up, that is going to have a material impact, and the question is whether the government is actually going to take control or whether they're just going to let the belt out once again.

Laura Jayes: Okay, let's talk about a few other things. You accuse Labor of luring first home buyers into negative equity. Do you know how many are in negative equity now?

Tim Wilson: We don't, the government continues to hide these figures, but the Reserve Bank has said explicitly that people who were on the 5% home deposit scheme are now at very serious risk of negative equity, and this is the problem of a falling housing market. Labor likes to pop the champagne corks when we see a fall in house prices, but the truth is that is the wealth and the wages of Australians disappearing, and of course we've already seen substantial drops with further drops to come, and that's going to be years of people's hard work and effort that is simply evaporating because the government has targeted real estate in particular to drive down the value of homes and to destroy the wealth and wages of Australians.

Laura Jayes: Why was the 5% deposit scheme a good idea when the Liberals were in government and it's not now?

Tim Wilson: We're not talking about whether there's components of it that are a good idea, the focus is on whether it is a sustainable way forward, particularly where property prices were. The government uses a very clear vehicle to encourage people to go in. The challenge now for us is to make sure that people aren't in negative equity. The idea that Australians are going to have to work years and years and years into the future just to pay off empty debt is a real problem, but that was by design. This is the economy Labor built, which destroys the wealth and wages of Australian households.

Laura Jayes: So, you're saying the combination, so you wouldn't have changed negative gearing and CGT, these housing taxes, therefore under your government this 5% deposit scheme would have been okay?

Tim Wilson: Well, we've already said that we'll repeal the changes in the budget around negative gearing and capital gains tax, because we know that this is going to continue to undermine the wealth and wages of the Australian people. We know that the active inflation agenda of the Albanese government is stoking inflation, which means that wages are not keeping up with inflation, so Australians are going backward on both wealth and in wages.

Laura Jayes: Let's talk about these transaction costs as well, these surcharges, they've been banned, but there is still a cost. Who is paying for it now?

Tim Wilson: Well, the consumer. This is the great lie of the Albanese government. They said they were going to ban surcharges with all celebration on their side, ignoring the fact that this is going to pound down on small business and add onto their costs. Small business is already at near record insolvencies, plenty of people are just walking away from running a small business and they even have a drop in profitability by about 15%. Now we've had this surcharge ban come in, and not only are consumers going to pick up the cost through small businesses, which makes them less competitive, we now have the ATO turning around and saying one of the ways that small business finances their tax liabilities, they're going to cut off rather than admit that these costs are going to be passed on to consumers. The ATO should overturn this restriction because it was given with no notice and it's really going to hurt small businesses that are already struggling between the surcharge ban plus payday super.

Laura Jayes: Okay, so why again, there's a cost to all of this, the ATO argues that it would be the taxpayer paying that cost?

Tim Wilson: Well, no, they can still, like small businesses are, ultimately charge the surcharge and pass it on if they wish to do so. The ridiculous proposition is that they've shut down a legal pathway to pay tax because the Labor government doesn't want to admit that when you make it illegal for them to be able to charge it in the headline rate, you end up in a situation where it ultimately absorbs the cost that's passed through the consumer.

Laura Jayes: There's a bit going on at the Tax Office at the moment, and small businesses are really feeling targeted and they're feeling the pinch here. Is it more than just this surcharge issue? A lot of small businesses seem to be saying this is just the straw that's going to break the camel's back. Are you aware of these changes or the behaviour within the ATO? Is this something that a lot of small businesses are bringing up with you?

Tim Wilson: This is the economy Labor built where because they can't control their own spending, they've set the ATO aggressively after small business, enough that…

Laura Jayes: Yeah, so, you've heard that. I've heard that as well, there's an aggressive campaign or pursuit of small businesses who haven't paid their tax debt, and then we have these big headline cases like Bathla, for example, just for example, not targeting them, that seem to be getting a little bit more leeway.

Tim Wilson: Well, I can't speak to the individual cases, but I've absolutely heard consistently from small business that the ATO is now being extremely aggressive against them. I mean, Labor has set the ATO onto the small businesses like a pack of rottweilers, because they can't control their spending, so they need to get additional revenue from somewhere. But then you've got the government passing laws without any consideration of the impact on small business from what's been done with under-18 wages or youth wages to payday super, and of course now this change around surcharging. And what it does is it completely strips cash flow out of small businesses often that are already struggling to keep their doors open and pushing them under financial water.

Laura Jayes: Just one final question. Barnaby Joyce is talking about speaking to someone in the Coalition about deals being done, called you a clown, you sure it isn’t you two?

Tim Wilson: Well, we're talking to each other through television cameras.

Laura Jayes: Maybe. I don't know.

Tim Wilson: No, I'm afraid I've said previously this is a figment of his imagination.

Laura Jayes: I’ve seen some things. Maybe?

Tim Wilson: But you know, there's plenty of times where I think Barnaby is having conversations with people. Whether or not they're in the room or whether or not they exist, I don't know. But I think this is purely a figment of his imagination. Our objective is to win a majority Liberal-led government at the next election with our Coalition partners, the National Party, and I don't know who he's talking to, but I have no doubt it's a very entertaining one-way conversation.

Laura Jayes: Oh, that's a bit unfair. Are you accusing him of hallucinating?

Tim Wilson: No, I'm just making the observation that he's the one who keeps saying he's talking to people, he can't identify who they are, he can't tell us whether they're in the room, he can't tell us whether they exist, and so, I just don't really believe any of it.

Laura Jayes: You two might have to work together, closely.

Tim Wilson: We have worked together previously.

Laura Jayes: Yeah, get the band back together, you might have to.

Tim Wilson: My objective is to make sure that we have a majority Liberal-led government after the next federal election to save Australia from a ruinous Albanese government.

Laura Jayes: Thought you might say that, Tim Wilson, have a good weekend, we'll see you soon.

Tim Wilson: Thank you.

[ENDS]