Thursday, 24 September 2026

Topics: OpenAI data breach; Coalition’s Fuel Price Shield.

E&OE……………………..

Laura Jayes: Let’s head to the Shadow Treasurer, Tim Wilson, now. Tim, you're from Melbourne, this is a good idea from your opposition, your opposite number?

Tim Wilson: I think it's very welcome that Ben Carroll is talking about extending the trading hours so that Victorians can truly celebrate the absolute destruction of his government. But I can assure you, we will be partying the minute that government falls, well longer than 3:00AM. This government – the modern Labor Party – is an organised crime cartel, registered as a political party and the sooner it is gone, the better.

Laura Jayes: Okay, let's talk about OpenAI now and this data breach that we've seen, the Medicare website or Services Australia. How serious do you think this is?

Tim Wilson: Well, it's extremely serious. It's extremely serious because, you know, I feel Australia is being letting left vulnerable because we haven't developed the sovereign domestic industry we need for AI as part of our defence. Last week we had the Director-General of ASD out there talking about the important role it will play as part of our national security framework and securing our data and our infrastructure. I'm also concerned about the reports we've heard where the government's known about this for nearly two weeks and hasn't informed the public, and I think they need to very clearly answer to those reports and give us clarity about why it was it took two weeks for it to be revealed to the public.

Laura Jayes: Well, and what is so serious about this? Is it the breach itself, the automation, or the way that we were notified?

Tim Wilson: Well, it's multiple things. It's our domestic capacity to protect Australian data and infrastructure. It's the fact that there was a two-week delay before the public was made aware of it and we're waiting for reports from the Prime Minister to explain why there was a two-week lag. And of course, also about our capacity to be able to secure our data and infrastructure into the future. So, at every stage we need to make sure that the government understands what's happening and doing what it can to protect Australians.

Laura Jayes: But Tim, shouldn't we see this at least partly through the lens of the Prime Minister finding out at the weekend? He's waited till Thursday to tell the Australian public. He just happens to be in New York calling for greater AI regulation. Suits his argument.

Tim Wilson: Well, the thing I'm told is that report, reports say that he was notified or the government was notified, Services Australia was notified on the 10th of September. And so, if they knew on the 10th and now you're saying the Prime Minister only found on the weekend, there's a conversation about why it was that the Prime Minister and his government were not informed. Then there of course is why the decision that was taken to delay an announcement to the public. And I think we need absolute clarity around that because if people's data is made vulnerable, I think Australians want to know. They also want to know what is the case for the delay in informing the public. Because as you say, if it's a cynical exercise around politics, that's extremely distressing because it almost amounts to the risk of a cover-up.

Laura Jayes: Well, perhaps I can go a little bit to explain that, because from my understanding is, and perhaps this is the most egregious part of it, is that OpenAI informed the government by sending an email to a public service access email for Services Australia. So, whose responsibility that was in picking it up and then getting its way to the Prime Minister, it might cause some of the delay. But he was told at the weekend by Sam Altman, but still it's four days waiting to New York where he's calling on greater AI regulation to announce it in a media conference.

Tim Wilson: And these are the questions that the Prime Minister needs to answer. Not just about what's happened on Services Australia's end, what happened in terms of his notification, and then what it's gone on to reveal to the public. There are a lot of questions that need to be answered out of this disclosure. And I think it's very important, one, that we obviously clearly have a better relationship where OpenAI if they chose to notify the Australian government doesn't send it to, you know, ‘[email protected]’, or whatever the email address is, it says it clearly the government, our government doesn't have the relationships it needs and the investment in those relationships to protect the Australian people.

Laura Jayes: But the breach itself, Tim, do you want more information on it? Or do we see this as a, you know, a minor data breach? The automated aspect of it is quite concerning because it's an agent. But it is still a minor data breach. It didn't get people's information, and it was a statistical data breach if you like.

Tim Wilson: Well, I think it's actually much more concerning when you look at the fact that this has happened, as you said, in an automated way, and while there may not have been a data breach of people's personal health records at this point, it doesn't negate the fact that if you can breach those sorts of walls, that it may not be able to do it into the future, and so this is why it should be taken extremely seriously by the government, as it should be taken extremely seriously, why it was that it took the government so long to both find out, but then also to then reveal to the public, because Australians need confidence in our digital systems, our software systems, that protect not just people's privacy and data, but national security and of course, the infrastructure we depend on as a country. So, the Prime Minister needs to be full and frank. He needs to give information to the public in a forthright way, which isn't seemingly what's happened so far.

Laura Jayes: We've got an AI security institute though. That didn't pick it up.

Tim Wilson: I'm prepared to, you know, sort of broadly accept that there will be an evolution in the technology and our response, but that requires taking the public with you, building trust, and when at least present we have reports the Prime Minister found out four days ago, but didn't tell the public four days later, it doesn't instil trust from the public and address the root cause of concern. You know, this is not going to be the first attempt, and we know it's not the first attempt around cyber-attacks, malicious or otherwise, automated or actively pursued by foreign actors. We need confidence particularly because of the automated nature of this.

Laura Jayes: Okay. Are you concerned about perhaps this being too overblown, scaring the public unnecessarily, all to find some leverage with OpenAI who, you know, we're in negotiations with now to get more data centres and there's a fight on copyright?

Tim Wilson: I don't think we can seek to overblow this. It's very serious that we've had our systems that have been, by an agent, hacked, and while the data that may have been taken may not have been specifically sensitive, it raises questions about our sovereign capacity to be able to run AI industry, to protect ourselves against it, whether we have the resources to be able to do so, and whether we have a government that's been truthful and honest with the Australian public about the current state of challenges. So, I accept that there's this broader political conversation around AI, OpenAI and the other companies involved in negotiations around location of learning models in Australia. But the critical thing is the public has to be taken on the journey with us, and it has to be done in a safe and secure way, information revealed today suggests that isn't the case.

Laura Jayes: Indeed. All right. We have exhausted that topic. I just quickly want to ask you about two other things. I wanted to ask you about the fuel excise policy. Because is it a bit rich for you to criticize One Nation on its superannuation policy and say it's inflationary, but somehow your fuel excise policy wouldn't be?

Tim Wilson: No, because we have offsets, that's the key difference. One nation of course has put out their policy, which is simply to stoke the volume of money supply to purchase to purchase goods and services in the economy. What we've done is said, well, we'll raise additional tax revenue throughout the tobacco tax regime. We're going to take money off organized crime and provide temporary tax cuts for fuel when it reaches a certain price due to international factors. We've always said, every step of the way, that fuel tax cuts need to be offered with inflation offsets. We said that the first time when we put it forward, Labor went ahead and did it and stoked inflation and cut the tax the excise without offering inflation offsets. One of the things in the development of this policy, and I can tell you, I was very clear and very hard line about it, is that it needs to have inflation offsets to make sure that when we cut fuel for Australians through unleaded or diesel, that there's inflation offsets so we don't give with one hand and then take with the other.

Laura Jayes: Isn't there a better way to spend finite government revenue, rather than give people $15 a tank off for fuel temporarily? Why isn't this more targeted to let the regions or heavy road user charges?

Tim Wilson: Well, it is. In fact, that's why there's a difference between the excise cut that's being offered for unleaded petrol…

Laura Jayes: Well, it's not targeted because you give it to everyone.

Tim Wilson: Well, but that's because everyone is also experiencing the increased cost associated with fuel. We don't sit here and try and dictate to Australian families how they mobilize and get around the country. What we want to do is provide a fuel price shield to Australian households that when we have international conflict, which is going to stoke petrol prices, that we provide some excise relief to protect those families, as well as industry, so that we can move as a nation together.

Laura Jayes: Tim Wilson, always good to talk to you. I know you got to go. We've gone a little bit over. Enjoy your day.

Tim Wilson: Thanks, Laura.

[ENDS]