Friday, 19 June 2026

Transcript: Interview on Channel 7, Sunrise

Topics: Tony Modra, Labor’s budget backflip, Mark Butler’s prime ministerial prospects

E&OE……

Natalie Barr: It's time for a Friday chat with our politicians. Health Minister Mark Butler and Shadow Treasurer Tim Wilson join us. First to you, Mark, you are an Adelaide man. You must be thinking of Tony's family this morning.

Mark Butler: Yeah, Erika and the kids, and this vast network of friends and families and supporters Tony Modra brought around him over decades. Richo's right, 30 years ago he was the most exciting player in the AFL. And he was, they called him 'Godra' here in Adelaide. He was just so exciting to watch—fast on the lead, an amazing kick for goal, and I think a three-time winner of AFL's Mark of the Year. I'm not sure anyone else has ever done that. And after his footy career, he returned to country South Australia, he's been running this cattle farm and remained a really loved member of the community. So, our hearts are breaking. We're desperately hoping for good news for Erica and the kids and his family, and for the broader Adelaide community who have such love for this man.

Natalie Barr: Yeah, we're thinking of his family rallying around as he fights his biggest fight. Tim, Modra, an AFL legend of course. So, this is such a shock for everyone.

Tim Wilson: It is a shock for everybody. And of course, people grappling with the news this morning, as Mark correctly pointed out, it's not just obviously his family who are very concerned and stressed at the moment, it's the entire football community. Of course, coming from Melbourne, which is the home of AFL, I remember Tony from my childhood days and the contribution he made, and so we wish his family all the best.

Natalie Barr: Moving on now to the big budget backdown. No matter how you cut it, Aussies are confused, they are frustrated, and more than a month later, Mark, you've changed it again. Rarely have we seen a budget that's been so convoluted, so divisive. Who wears this? Is it the Prime Minister or the Treasurer?

Mark Butler: Well, we said on budget night, Nat, that we would be consulting, particularly about the treatment of small business and startups. You and I have talked about this over the last several weeks, and the changes that the Treasurer and Prime Minister announced yesterday I think are sensible changes. They reflect that deep engagement with business in particular, and they deliver a package that is clearer at some of the edges that people were worried about, and also, I think, more balanced. We've got more support for small business—98% of active businesses will be carved out of our capital gains tax changes—and more support for innovation, particularly those startups, those founders, and the employee share schemes that often sit alongside them. But retaining the values of this budget, which was better support for young people getting into the housing market, fairer balanced treatment in tax terms between income earned from wages on the one hand and investment on the other, and delivering another tax cut—the fifth tax cut we've delivered for Australia's workers.

Natalie Barr: But can you see, you do a big budget, you announce it to Australia, and then people are confused and then they are worried, and you have the Treasurer saying people are making things up, there is misinformation, people are fuelling a war against these changes, they are overstating how much they will be affected, there's a scare campaign against them. So, a lot of people think, "Well, I am going to be affected." How can you announce something and then say we're consulting at the same time?

Mark Butler: Well, because tax reform is hard. It's complex. It's not just politically hard, but getting the detail right is hard, and it's not uncommon, it's pretty standard, whether you look at the Hawke-Keating tax changes or the Howard-Costello tax changes, for there to be ongoing work about the detail of those things.

Natalie Barr: To announce and consult at the same time?

Mark Butler: Yeah, Jim was honest about that on budget night, that if we were going to make a significant change to the treatment of capital gains, for example, there would have to be consultation about the detail of that. We were honest about that on budget night, indeed there was some consultation already happening before budget night. We've continued that in a very deep engagement with business in particular, and I think delivered a clearer and more balanced package with the changes that the Prime Minister and Treasurer announced yesterday.

Natalie Barr: Okay. Tim, on the flip side, in reality, nearly three million small businesses will be exempt. That is good news this morning.

Tim Wilson: Well, the government has completely hashed their budget every step of the way. We've seen that they went to the last election saying they wouldn't introduce these new taxes. Let's be honest, Mark, let's actually be honest, the government lied to the Australian people. They've now gone and introduced a budget which has completely fallen apart. It's quite clear yesterday the Prime Minister and the Treasurer were hostage at their own press conference as they've been brought to heel by the Australian people. The first question you asked, Nat, was who's going to wear this. It's actually the Australian people because while there are obviously some carve-outs, it doesn't change the fact that millions of Australians are going to be paying higher taxes they didn't vote for as a consequence of this budget. And the government is now trying to gloss over it and try and sort of polish a turd, as the expression I'm using, or polish a tax turd, because this isn't the budget Australians voted for.

Natalie Barr: Mark, if you went back, if you went back to the May budget, would your government do it the same?

Mark Butler: Well, I think as I said, when there's really significant tax reform, you cannot you cannot announce every single little detail at once. There has to be deep engagement about how these things would operate in practice. We were honest about that on budget night, we moved immediately to have that deep engagement, and in a matter of a relatively small number of weeks, we've delivered that change I think that means we've got a clearer, more balanced budget.

Natalie Barr: Mark, do you think the Prime Minister and the Treasurer are getting along this week?

Mark Butler: Yes, of course they are. They work they work closely. They have they've had a productive relationship for the four years we've been in government, being able to deliver tax relief, cost of living relief at a an enormously difficult time for Australian households and businesses as we continue to get buffeted by all of these things happening around the world. This is an enormously productive relationship which I watch up close.

Natalie Barr: Okay. Thank you, we'll see you next week…

Tim Wilson: He does watch it up close because the person who is likely to benefit from this—

Natalie Barr: Sorry, Tim.

Tim Wilson: To say, he does watch it up close because I suspect this is the Treasurer's last budget and the Prime Minister's probably going to fall with him. And the person who's going to win out of that is going to be Prime Minister Mark Butler.

Natalie Barr: What, so you think Albo's going to get rid of Chalmers?

Tim Wilson: I do think he's going to because he's hashed it up so badly, he really has no choice, but that will probably be the Prime Minister's demise, and the person who's going to be the beneficiary is going to be the person on your program right now, Mark Butler.

Natalie Barr: What, so Mark's going to go into his role? Mark, are you getting a pay rise?

Mark Butler: Total rubbish, Tim.

Tim Wilson: He's the next person who's going to be Prime Minister once Albo falls, trust me.

Mark Butler: Total rubbish, Tim. Why would we trust you?

Tim Wilson: Trust me.

Mark Butler: Why would we trust you?

Tim Wilson: This is coming from a bloke who went to the last election saying they wouldn't promise to introduce all these taxes.

Natalie Barr: Okay, okay, we'll leave it there. Thank you very much, gentlemen. We'll see you next week.

[ENDS]