Interview on ABC Radio Melbourne with Ali Moore

Tim Wilson MP
Shadow Treasurer

Topics: Housing affordability, taxation, economic policy.

E&OE

Ali Moore: Tim Wilson, congratulations and welcome.

Tim Wilson MP: Thank you, Ellie. It's lovely to be with you.

Ali Moore: Shadow Treasurer, is that the dream portfolio?

Tim Wilson MP: It's certainly one of the better ones, I think we can say that, but I really enjoyed being Shadow Minister for Small Business because small business, family business and the self-employed are at the heart of the Australian economy and that's what I want to bring into this new role and make sure that we're backing them in hard.

Ali Moore: I do want to get to your priorities in your new role, but I was curious, Michelle Gratton wrote a piece this morning quoting a liberal source describing you as un-embarrassable. Is that a good quality for a politician to have?

Tim Wilson MP: I haven't seen that and that is very cute but you know that's what happens when you have core belief. You'll never show courage or conviction for anything if you don't believe, not just in yourself, but believe in what you're standing for. I got into public life because I believe that Australia's best days are ahead. I'm optimistic and hopeful about the future but at the moment our economy needs a reset and now's the time for good people to stand up.

Ali Moore: Well, I mean, when it comes to things like core beliefs and believing in your policy, your new leadership team, Angus Taylor and Jane Hume, they were both instrumental in selling your economic message at the last election. That did not go well. So why are they the right people to take the party to the next election?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, everybody has different things to contribute, and no one's trying to pretend otherwise that it didn't go well. The numbers show it themselves. But one of the things about leadership-

Ali Moore: Have they changed though? Have they fundamentally changed how they do things and what they believe in?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, we need to start by understanding that one of the first things that a good leader does is build a team of people in the right place. Angus and Jane have obviously decided they think that this is the right fit for me. Of course, history will judge that and history will tell. But whether if the expression is that I'm unembarrassable, as you say, I'm certainly absolutely unapologetic in going forward and fighting for the future economic growth and opportunities for Australians.

Ali Moore: Does it make it harder though when you've got a leadership team that has acknowledged that they made mistakes, mistakes around opposing tax cuts, mistakes around opposing working from home? Does it create a credibility problem? Made one mistake, could make another?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, none of us are blameless. None of us are free of errors in the past. The best thing to do when you get something wrong is own it, acknowledge it and move forward because we're all capable of growth, including myself. And I think it's frankly helpful because actually I think what Australians want is a lot more honesty and candour from their politicians. They're a little bit sick of people just avoiding responsibility, just like the Albanese Government's doing around their contribution to inflation now.

Ali Moore: So, in terms of honesty, do you think the electorate's going to forgive the rolling of the first female leader of the federal Liberal Party?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, I don't think people look at political leaders solely through the lens of gender. I think the polling has very clearly shown that, and I voted for Susan, that's very clear, but it's shown very clearly that the public have made its mind up about the direction and that some things needed to change. I said things needed change even though I voted a different way, precisely because I want to, not just hold the government to account, I want an animating vision for the future of our country where the next generation can look to the horizon with confidence.

Ali Moore: But I guess, and go back to honesty in politics, I mean, do you think the fact that Susan Ley was a woman is completely irrelevant?

Tim Wilson MP: I didn't say that, but I said I don't think the overwhelming majority of people look at these things through a gendered lens. There's clearly a majority of Australians who pass judgement in polling data about performance. So we have a change and of course future leaders will be judged on performance as well.

Ali Moore: Do you think it is going to make it harder for many voters who already believe that the Liberal Party has a woman problem?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, again, I don't think that's actually how the overwhelming majority of voters look at these issues. I accept some do, some will, but I don't think people vote on the basis of gender. I don't think they vote on a basis of religion, of sexual orientation. I actually think most voters go to the ballot box and say, who's going to make my life better? And I think the Labour Party did a really good job at the last election of duping people into it. And you just see from the wage data today where inflation annualised is outstripping wage growth. Australians are getting further behind.

Ali Moore: You're listening to Tim Wilson, he's the new Shadow Federal Treasurer. So Tim Wilson looking at policy and against that backdrop of you saying people will vote according to who's going to make their lives better, should the capital gains tax discount be scrapped?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, I don't think so, because the objective we have should be to increase the volume and supply of housing. I go back to some pretty basic economic principles. If you don't want more of something, you tax it heavier. If you want more, you remove the tax or reduce the tax. Jim Charmer's plan is to increase tax on housing. That means you'll get less of it, which means the price of housing will go up, rents will go up, I don't think that's a logical answer rather than type of behaviour we want to incentivise.

Ali Moore: So what's changed since you wrote your book, The New Social Contract?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, nothing's changed. If you actually go and look at my book, what I talk about is the discrepancy between income tax at 47% versus the capital gains tax, which is half that. And what I say is the incentives are misaligned. My answer is cut income tax. Jim Chalmers' solution is to increase the cost and taxes on housing. Nothing's changed, in fact, I think I've only just made the clear case about why my answer is the right answer.

Ali Moore: But just to quote you, there's no intergenerational justice in such preferential arrangements. You're talking about capital gains and you do go on, you say there's not one factor that's driven the housing crisis, but capital gains tax has played a role.

Tim Wilson MP: Well, you know, even the the best economists will tell you there's a maximum of four percent with the contribution of negative gearing. Supply is clearly the biggest impact. And what I said, if you go and read the chapters of the sections that weren't just provided to you by the treasurer's office is actually I will just take...

Ali Moore: I will just hasten to add I do my own research, I don't need the Treasurer to do it for me.

Tim Wilson MP: Then if you have a copy of the new social contract, Renewing the Liberal Vision for Australia in front of you, you can go back to the paragraph preceding that which talks specifically about how we need to get taxes down. Jim Chalmers wants to increase the taxes on housing, I want to reduce income tax. There's two ways to solve this.

Ali Moore: Can I put it another way? How does the capital gains tax discount benefit those who are trying to get into the housing market? How, how does it help the housing situation?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, if you increase the tax on housing, you'll get a reduction in the volume of new investment and supply. You're seeing this in Victoria right now. When you add a vacant property tax, when you increase amount of land tax, what's happened is developers just stopped building new housing until there's stability, which is one of the reasons why we desperately need a change of government in Victoria.

Ali Moore: We've also raised tens of billions of more tax revenue that could be used for the government to fund new housing.

Tim Wilson MP: But this long-term solution for housing is not to get the government to build housing. The long- term solution for the housing is to actually increase the number of homeowners because if people can afford to own their own home, they're less likely to be dependent on either private rentals or social housing. If there are more people looking for social housing, it's a failure of the housing market. And that means that you have too few people being out before their own home. I'm about long-term solutions, not quick political fixes.

Ali Moore: Negative gearing, do you want to see a change to that?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, again, you know, negative gearing is literally about saying you don't apply taxes when people lose money. If you want to start applying taxes on when people lose, money, people will take less risk, they will invest less in the future, and we will lose out as a country because you'll get less investment in housing, which means less houses, which means young Australians will be punished. I don't want that. I want a brighter, more optimistic and hopeful future for the next generation of Australians where they can get a good job. Afford to save and buy a home and retire with security.

Ali Moore: Tim Wilson I know we're almost out of time I am just and I would love the opportunity to pursue policy with you over the coming months but just on the coalition do you think it's going to stick together under Angus Taylor. Is it tighter than it was under Susan Ley will there be a third split or is it safe and secure?

Tim Wilson MP: I'm very confident and optimistic that everyone's focus now is on how we build the future of the Australian economy, a more cohesive society, and building out the best opportunity for the next generation of Australians. I don't agree with every decision that's been made in recent days by the Nationals. That's hardly been a secret, but I think we have a clear alignment of interest because there's too much at stake, we need hope and we can't afford to continue to live the consequences of the Albanese active inflation agenda.

Ali Moore: It's tough or hard to stick to your core beliefs when you're in a coalition that you don't share core beliefs with.

Tim Wilson MP: Well, there's an alternative which is you could be a member of the Labor Party, take a full frontal lobotomy and just do what your leader tells you to. Sadly, that's what Jim Chalmers is living right now as he lives under the thumb of the Prime Minister.

Ali Moore: Tim Wilson, thank you so much for your time.

Tim Wilson MP: Thank you. Lovely to chat to you.

ENDS