Tuesday, 16 September 2025

E&OE

Nadia Mitsopoulos:

I’ve got in the studio Tim Wilson, he's the Shadow Minister for Small Business, Industrial Relations and Employment. He's in Perth today, he is the member for Goldstein, not Goldstien. He has his eyes very firmly on the operations of the construction union and the pressures facing small business. So if you do run a small business you might want to have a listen to what he has to say and then see if you agree with some of the things he would like to see changed to make your life a little bit easier, Good morning Tim Wilson, welcome to Perth.

Tim Wilson MP:

Good morning, and thank you for having me, but I've bought Melbourne weather with me. I apologise about that.

Nadia Mitsopoulos:

That’s okay, we've had this kind of weather for the last couple of weeks so it's not your fault. Firstly, what do you make of Andrew Hastie's comments indicating he would walk away from the Shadow Cabinet if the Liberal Party supports net zero?

Tim Wilson MP:

I think there's an incredible amount of frustration with the government because at the end of the day they made a very clear commitment to the Australian community that if you had net zero you would see price reductions, you would reduction in emissions and of course you would see stability in the electricity grid, particularly on the East Coast. We've seen the exact opposite. We have seen rising electricity prices, we have seen less reliable power. And we've even seen increases in emissions and now at best a flatlining. So the promise versus the delivery is different. What we need is stable energy policy that is focused and driven by making sure Australians can afford electricity prices, that they can have reliable power, because that's the social license to then get emissions reduction. And that's what I think everybody wants to see in the Australian community, but instead, this government is allowing emissions to wag the tail of policy and energy policy, which is only leading to increases in cost for Australians and isn't actually driving down emissions.

Nadia Mitsopoulos:

So you're echoing a lot of what Andrew Hastie said yesterday afternoon, but are you surprised that he's saying if the Liberal Party supports net zero he'd walk away?

Tim Wilson:

Andrew’s expressed his view about net zero, but I think everybody in the Coalition...

Nadia Mitsopoulos:

Would you be sad to see him leave the Shadow Cabinet?

Tim Wilson:

I want a policy position that we can all unite behind. I've said consistently I believe we should have a policy that focuses on net zero price increases, net zero outages and that's the pathway to get to net zero emissions reduction. And so...

Nadia Mitsopoulos:

By 2050?

Tim Wilson:

Well, that's consistent with what we've said all along. So that's not a debate from my perspective. So, but the focus has to be on net zero price increases and net zero outages. And you get that, you'll get the approval for net zero emissions increases. And that's why it's so important that we get the first part right. But Labor is only focused on emissions and they don't seem to care how much price rises go up, how much there's unreliability in electricity and Australians are living that consequence now.

Nadia Mitsopoulos:

Okay. So to be clear, you support net zero based on what you've just said.

Tim Wilson MP:

I’ve said consistently I support net zero price increases, net zero outages, and net zero emissions.

Nadia Mitsopoulos:

Why is this so hard for the party to land on a position? Why is it splitting the Liberal Party so much?

Tim Wilson MP:

I don't think it is. I think what people are doing is voicing their frustration and what we want is a way forward, a policy that's going to work for Australia and Australian conditions that's balanced and actually reflects what we need to build the future of our country. At the moment, we have a Labor government that doesn't seem to give a stuff about what impact it's going have on small businesses, on households, on leading to new investment and jobs and economic opportunity for Australians. They're only interested in the press releases that they're issuing, and we're all gonna pay a price for that. It's an important conversation. We need to be rational, we need to be proportionate, and we need have a balanced approach to land where we need for building the future of this country.

Nadia Mitsopoulos:

I want to talk about the other issues that you are here for, but if I can just press you on that. The feedback we're getting from quite a lot of listeners after Andrew Hastie's comments is that this is a gift for the Labor Party. It allows them to paint the Liberal Party as out of touch at a time when you've had a resounding, you won your seat back, but a resounding loss at the federal election based on a climate policy that people like Andrew Hastie are still championing.

Tim Wilson:

Well, what Andrew's told you, he's going to feed into the process, but we need to come together and focus on building a policy that's going take us all forward, not just as a party, but as...

Nadia Mitsopoulos:

Can you do that under Sussan Ley?

Tim Wilson MP:

Of course we can. And more importantly, we can do that to build out the future of the country because that's what's not happening at the moment. Instead, we've got a policy from the Labor Government solely focused on emissions that doesn't care about the impacts it's having on small business, the impact it's having on industry, the impact it's having on households. And everybody's going to slowly pay the price. And if it were leading to some sort of miraculous global emissions reduction, or even local emissions reduction, meaning Australia, people would at least say, well, on the benchmark, at least it's achieving that objective. At the moment, prices are going up, electricity is becoming less reliable, and we're also seeing a rise, rising or a flatlining of emissions. So it's not even achieving its own benchmark.

Nadia Mitsopoulos:

Tim Wilson is my guest this morning, Shadow Minister for Small Business, Industrial Relations and Employment, visiting Perth. Okay, the climate risk assessment report, did you back the findings? You believe it was a climate alarmism?

Tim Wilson MP:

Well, the report itself goes through lots of different issues around different scenarios, and of the 284 pages that I've read, it obviously goes through those different scenarios and projects things out, but it draws even attention within itself for the fact that the future is hard to predict. We need sober, rational assessment of the different scenarios and what it's then going to mean on the ground. That's why mitigation's important, adaptation's important. But it's also important that we are a resilient nation because we cannot solve a global challenge localised by ourselves. And we also have to make sure that Australians are in the best position to meet these challenges and confront them, which in part means that we have to be a prosperous nation because those most exposed are those who can't adapt.

Nadia Mitsopoulos:

Well, and it talks a lot about the economic impacts. You're here wanting some feedback from the business community. What are you wanting? What are your concerns regarding regulations, red tape?

Tim Wilson MP:

It’s not just about regulation and red tape. It's a mindset we have from the government. When we talk to, well it doesn't matter whether it's mining, whether it is construction anywhere, what we're seeing is the emergence of a cartelish relationship between government, between the unions, between industry super funds, where the priority is how they extract value from tax dollars for themselves rather than delivering best returns for small businesses or for Australian consumers or for taxpayers. I've got an article in the West Australian today talking specifically about how there's the emergence of governments enabling groups like the CFMEU to take advantage of projects where they get the benefit, but it's not actually delivering best value for Australian taxpayers and of course for consumers. And that's all being passed through. What Australia...

Nadia Mitsopoulos:

And you say that is a dark cartel.

Tim Wilson MP:

Well, there is a dark cartel and it's being lived and it is hiding in plain sight, but Labor governments are the ones enabling it. In Victoria right now, I know we're in Western Australia, but in Victoria right now, and in New South Wales last week, we have fire bombings of private residences of both union officials and private developers homes allegedly, based on them targeting each other because they're such a lawlessness. There's allegations in Western Australia of the CFMEU walking into projects and demanding they have certain rights to increase costs as well. What we've got is this cartelish relationship between government and the unions enabled by Labor governments to achieve the union's ends, not the best interests of taxpayers or consumers. I'm on the taxpayer and the consumer side.

Nadia Mitsopoulos:

And the government and the CFMEU here will argue well we're not Victoria and in fact the CFMEU has said that there is no illegality in what they are doing and we are not seeing what has been happening in Victoria. Is it different here?

Tim Wilson MP:

Well, there's always different things going on in different states, but the national body was put under administration under a fellow by the name of Mark Irving KC after the ABCC was abolished by the Albanese government because of the extent of organised crime being involved in the CFMEU. This was a report that was tabled down in the New South Wales Parliament only a couple of weeks ago, drawing the conclusions very clearly that one of his big tasks was to unpick the deep ingrained relationship between the CFMEU and organised crime. And if that doesn't set your hair on your chest or your back of your neck up, I don't know what is, but that's the relationship. In Victoria this week, last week, sorry, we had $10,000 of brown paper bags being handed around as entry rights to be able to work on government projects. This is not something that's state specific. It's national, it's endemic, it's cultural and Labor governments are enabling it, and you as taxpayers and consumers are paying the price through high costs.

Nadia Mitsopoulos:

I’ll leave it there, time has escaped us. I really appreciate you coming in, thank you.

Tim Wilson MP:

Thank you.

Nadia Mitsopoulos:

Tim Wilson there, Shadow Minister for Small Business, Industrial Relations and Employment.

ENDS