Thursday 11 September 2025

Raf Epstein: MP for the seat of Goldstein. He is also Shadow Minister for Small Business and Industrial Relations. Tim Wilson, good morning.

Tim Wilson: Good morning, Raf

Raf Epstein: Tim Wilson just before I ask about news here, what looks like the political assassination of Charlie Kirk, a right-wing influencer, what did you think when you saw that news?

Tim Wilson: Horrified as everybody is, one because violence is obviously and never a way to solve political disputes, but you know, distressing about what it says also about the trajectory of US politics as well.

Raf Epstein: Does it mean that they're only going one way their politics?

Tim Wilson: Well, I don't think so, no. I mean, obviously, there's enormous sympathy for him and his family, and he has children as well. We need to stress that point. But you never want to see violence being the solution to any political discussion. And I'm not a particular follower of his, but having watched his different clips at different points, he had robust conversations about difficult topics. But ones that were respectful, and he actually sought to promote respectful conversations, difficult, respectful conversations. And so I see this as a very distressing development.

Raf Epstein: You didn't ever meet him, did you?

Tim Wilson: No, I've never met him. But, you know, as I said, I've watched his videos at different points, you know on social media platforms, and I found them interesting because political conversation has to enliven and it can't just simply confirm what you think. And sometimes you offer challenging and difficult ideas or conversations, sometimes which we don't have here in this country, but they do in the US, and gave an interesting reflection to where conversations are going in the United States.

Raf Epstein: OK, let's turn to what's going on right here in Australia. Has it been embarrassing watching Jacinta Price undermine your leader?

Tim Wilson: I think it's just been one of those weeks where you look in politics, where you want to focus on the Labor Party and what it's doing, and we've been distracted by our internal issues. And now it's nice to be able to get back to focus on the problems that the people of Australia and of course, Victoria face.

Raf Epstein: Did Sussan Ley make the right decision?

Tim Wilson: Well at the end of the day when you're part of a shadow cabinet you have a responsibility to back your colleagues and back your leader and so obviously when Senator Price made her decision not to do so, her hand was forced. And so the answer is yes. You know, if I'm ever part of a shadow cabinet, I expect my responsibility and my duties to back my leader. And that's the basis which I would be engaged with. So, and I would expect my leader to expect that from me.

Raf Epstein: Would you want Senator Price to come and speak at a branch meeting?

Tim Wilson: I always welcome Liberal and colleagues to come and speak at meetings, but, you know, the focus on our issues in local areas, you now, in Goldstein at the moment, you've got the state government trying to railroad, you know, increasing density and development in the area. It's completely disinterested in local democracy. Those aren't the focus of the issues she's concerned about. So I'm not sure that'd be the basis that I'd bring her along.

Raf Epstein: Is she good for the party?

Tim Wilson: I think anyone who wants to stand up and promote responsibility for communities and build the strength of our country shows the full diversity of the Australian character is good for the country.

Raf Epstein: And so you're saying she displays those values or not?

Tim Wilson: Well, I'm saying we have to live those out and that's now part of the conversation this week. I've said every step of the way, if you get something wrong, I've always owned when I've got something wrong. I've then taken responsibility, apologised so the conversation can move on and I expect that from my colleagues and I've set that publicly throughout the week.

Raf Epstein: And Alex Hawke basically rang her up after her ABC interview, one of your colleagues, and said, you've got to apologise. Did he handle it okay?

Tim Wilson: These are all different parts of hearsay and I really don't want to get into all of that. As far as I'm concerned, the decision has been made. It's time to move on.

Raf Epstein: Well, I guess maybe he contributed to the binfire. Do you think he did?

Tim Wilson: Look, as I said, this is all just going to be part of different hearsay. The reality is, the decision has being made, it's time to move because what I want from colleagues is a focus specifically on holding the government to account because that's what Australians want us to do, not to be focused on ourselves.

Raf Epstein: Jacinta Price essentially said last week that Indian Australians are being brought here to vote for Labor, brought to this country to vote for Labor. How damaging was what she said?

Tim Wilson: Well, that's not my view. You know that is not my view. I believe, you know, our migration program one should be nondiscriminatory, but the basis in which people should come to Australia is because they want to. Integrate and become full participants in the Australian way of life and help build the future of our country. And I've quoted her back to herself, which is we should be focused on nation building. And that's what I want. And and I think that's the basis in which most migrants overwhelmingly come to our country because they actually want to be part of the future success of our county. And we should welcome that. That doesn't stop robust conversations about what sustainable population is.

Raf Epstein: Was what she said damaging?

Tim Wilson: Well, she said herself, it's inelegant. So you know, and

Raf Epstein: What’s your word for it?

Tim Wilson: That’s my word for it as well, which is inelegant. And I don't think it's the best way to handle a conversation. The best way is to talk about what we want to build, nation building, not nation burning. And that's the basis in which I'll engage in the conversation. It doesn't stop us having a robust conversations about what sustainable population policy is. But it's important to do it in the construct of how we build the future of our country and encourage people to want to invest in integrating and being part of this future success of our nation.

Raf Epstein: Tim Wilson is the Liberal MP for Goldstein. He's also a shadow minister in Sussan Ley's cabinet. I'll get to calls on 1300 222 774. I want to get to this story about the big build as well. But Tim Wilson, just back to Jacinta Price's comments. Has anyone in your electorate commented or contacted you about what she said?

Tim Wilson: Of course they have. Some people have diverse views about these sorts of issues, and some people support it, some people oppose, but the reality is this is the stuff that Australians aren't focused on. What they're focused on is how they can pay their bills, get on top of their mortgage, make sure they've got jobs. More people have contacted me about things like ANZ job cuts and what that means for them, including whether they work for the ANZ and whether they're confident about the future direction of Australian economy under both state and federal Labor governments.

Raf Epstein: You did say then a robust conversation about what sustainable population growth is. There are more protests this Saturday in the city so there's both some far-right groups and some people opposed to mass migration. Is that helpful? Is that part of the robust conversation?

Tim Wilson: Well, I mean, people of course are free to protest but when you get extremists who are engaged in promoting racism or anything like that, that's not the same thing. I mean people are engaging in intimidation in the public square are well beyond the robust conversation. We have laws to deal with that. Now we've seen neo-Nazis, of course we absolutely condemn that sort of conduct and what they're seeking to promote. And I'm not familiar with who's going to be on the streets this weekend but what we've seen now is this kind of unleashing of extremism and a lot of discussion and it's very worrying and I think it's a big challenge both for police but for good people to stand up across the political spectrum and say this isn't the standard we want to accept for our community or our country.

Raf Epstein: And that phrase mass migration, which is used a lot by the far right and sometimes is used by your liberal colleagues. Is that the right way to talk about it, mass migration or is that inflammatory?

Tim Wilson: Well, people want to make sure we've got a sustainable population into the future. So it's not the term I use.

Raf Epstein: Is it a dangerous term to use?

Tim Wilson: I think what people are ascribing heavy weights onto different terms. I think what Australians want is to have a sustainable population, and they want migration to match the future needs of our country. And they want it to be done in a way where, as population grows, they have basic infrastructure and basic expectations met. And a lot of people in capital cities around Australia right now don't feel like they're getting that. So we need a conversation on different sides, both in terms of the number of people that are arriving. But also how we're building the infrastructure that Australia needs.

Raf Epstein: Tim Wilson, you're also Shadow Minister for Industrial Relations. There is a significant story in the Age today they have a spreadsheet detailing a litany of complaints that were made to the State Government, the Victorian State Government. There's also Robert Redlich, the former IBAC Commissioner, saying it's worth digging deeper into this. Do we need a Royal Commission? Do we something we don't have to look at the big build?

Tim Wilson: I think it's absolutely heading there, because yesterday we got reports that there was graft and cartel kickbacks being paid on Victoria's big build projects. We had people wanting to pay $10,000 brown paper bags to organise crime to be able to get workers onto jobs into the big build projects. There's still questions over whether federal money is being sloshed through this system, not just Victorian taxpayer money. And now today we have revelations that the Victorian government knew of this when this was happening. So whether it's a royal commission or rather some other form of inquiry, when the state government knows public money is going towards corruption and organised crime and the federal government won't rule it out and Minister King, Minister Rishworth won't roll it out, it's clearly something serious needs to be done.

Raf Epstein: The state government's changed the way complaints are handled internally, the federal government's got an administrator looking at the union, royal commissions don't always lead to results. Maybe the things that have been changed need to be given time to work.

Tim Wilson: Yes and no, but we know from Mark Irving's report tabled to the New South Wales Parliament, to the CFMEU last week, that there has been active engagement of organised crime by the unions. Businesses equally have been, or corporates have been caught up engaging with organised crime to manage the challenges of organised on sites as well. This is a very distressing trend. It is not something we should be seeing on public projects, private projects, because consumers and taxpayers pay and so we need to look very seriously at what powers need to be exercised. And remember this has all been completely unleashed since the Albanese government abolished the ABCC where we now have a lawlessness and graft and corruption going on across Australian building sites and we can't allow this to go on.

Raf Epstein: Tim Wilson is the Shadow Minister in Sussan Ley's Shadow Cabinet. He's also the Melbourne MP for the seat of Goldstein. Thanks for your time.

ENDS