Interview on 2GB with Ben Fordham

Ben Fordham: Joining us live in the studio is the new Shadow Treasurer Tim Wilson. Tim Wilson good morning to you.

Tim Wilson MP: Good morning, Ben. How are you?

Ben Fordham: Good. Do you still feel new?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, I always feel refreshed and energised. How about that?

Ben Fordham: It feels like there's a bit of a spring in the step of the Coalition finally.

Tim Wilson MP: Well there is because we're laser-like in our focus in holding the Albanese government to account because frankly there's too much at stake and Australians desperately need us to do it.

Ben Fordham: How often are you hearing about ISIS brides as you make your way around the country?

Tim Wilson MP: Hearing it a lot but hearing also a lot about inflation. I was watching the Today Show this morning and it was talking specifically about how pensioners are doing it tough because of rising prices so we're hearing it across the board.

Ben Fordham: I'm going to ask you about a speech that Peter Costello is delivering today in just a moment on the economy but the first calls you're going to answer relate to the Islamic State Brides. I should just let people know that the PM and the Home Affairs Minister maintain they're not involved in the latest efforts to bring the ISIS brides home and at the same time we're learning more about one of the returning ISIS brides, Kirsty Ross-Emily is part of the cohort. Her former housemate Sara has reported to Daily Mail Australia a conversation that she once had with the ISIS bride where she was told "I don't want to go back to school I want to go and make bombs" and you've also got Dai Li, the independent MP in Fowler who's saying "well you can't drop them here in this electorate because we've got lots of people here who fled Islamic State". Let's go to Frankie who's got a question for Tim Wilson, the Shadow Treasurer. Go right ahead Frankie.

Caller 1: Good morning Ben, good morning Tim. I heard an argument recently about the Isis brides where they said since their Australian citizens were obliged to bring them home, to bring them back, how would you respond to that?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, of course, Australian citizens have a right to get into our country, but whether we issue them passports if they're putting us at risk is a different matter. What we know is that the government's playing tricky, where they get other groups to work with them to bring them back to Australia so they can deny plausible involvement. And this is the critical question for people like Tony Burke and of course the Prime Minister. Are they working through third parties to bring people back to Australia, who you know, I think any reasonable person would say is posing a serious safety risk.

Ben Fordham: Tony Burke wouldn't even tell us that they've been issued passports, it was the bloke running the camp in Syria who said, oh no, they've got Aussie passports I've seen them.

Tim Wilson MP: Exactly, and this is where they play tricky. They say one thing, 'oh we're not involved, we're not engaged, we are not contacting them, but there are other groups they work through to do exactly that so they can have their hands clean and deny involvement. But this comes back, Ben, to community safety. It's not just what they've done while they're over there, it's where their children are radicalised and how much they pose safety to the rest of us should they return.

Ben Fordham: If you've got a question for Tim Wilson or a comment, some advice, a tip, whatever you want, 131873. Helen, you're next up, what would you like to say?

Caller 2: Mr. Wilson, why is it the Australian, hardworking Australian taxpayer dollars responsible to support and educate their radicalized children when they come back, why should we do that? It's just not right in this day and age, I mean the way that the country is going?

Tim Wilson MP: Helen, your concern is the concern of so many people. You've got to be careful. What the adults do is up to the adults. The kids don't necessarily have the choice in the circumstances they face. One of the critical things we have to make sure is that the kids aren't radicalised. We have to makes sure that there isn't a pathway where they become a risk to the rest of the Australian community, but we also have to made sure that, of course, children are provided with appropriate education. So the question, this is why the pressure has to be back on the government, what are they doing, how are they facilitating a pathway for them to come back to Australia and what responsibility is going to happen to make sure that if they do arrive back that the rest of the community is kept safe.

Ben Fordham: What do you think Donald Trump would do in this situation, Tim Wilson? I'm not suggesting that you model yourself on the US President, but he wouldn't be worried about what school are they going to, how are we going to de-radicalise, he'd just be saying you're not coming.

Tim Wilson MP: Well that's what we've basically said, you shouldn't be facilitating a pathway for people who pose a risk to the Australian community, who've made a choice. They made a choose to go overseas to ally themselves with radical Islamists, to kill other people, to promote the caliphate, and we don't want people in our country who are actively going to stoke that type of division.

Ben Fordham: Tom wants to talk about ISIS brides as well and then we'll move on to some other topics. Tom, your call.

Caller 3: Good morning Ben and Tim. Just a call in relation to all that's happened to this state in relation with our government operatives, federal and state, also our security agencies and also the likes of Dr Jamal Riffey. Now these people cost money, a lot of money, funded by the taxpayer, I don't know where Demile Riffy gets his money from, but having said that, we're talking about a considerable amount of money to date. Now that's not including costings in relation if they do arrive, in relation to housing and so on and so forth. We're talking a heck of a lot of money.

Ben Fordham: Can we afford this at the moment Tim Wilson?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, we absolutely can't afford to be facilitating this type of activity right now when so many people are doing it tough. But it's also just a reminder of why we need clarity from the government now because we, the taxpayer, will pick up the bill no matter what decision they make. And I don't think Australians who are struggling to go the grocery, you know, pay their grocery bills or struggling to pay their mortgage are looking at how they're going pay for returned ISIS brides when they've made an active choice to betray our country.

Ben Fordham: And I think that Dai Li makes a very relevant point, where she says there are people in her electorate who are living here because they got away from Islamic State and then they find out that possibly you've got some Islamic State supporters who are moving into the neighborhood.

Tim Wilson MP: Bingo.

Ben Fordham: Let's talk about the economy. The former Treasurer Peter Costello has issued a warning to young Australians saying "the Labor Government is softening you up for tax hikes and meanwhile they're spending taxpayers' dollars like there's no tomorrow".

Tim Wilson MP: One hundred percent right, but it's even worse than that. They're borrowing from the future and pouring debt petrol on the inflation fire. Debt is tomorrow's taxes. They are not only raising taxes today, they're going to raise taxes into the future. And if you think that these taxes are not targeted at you, you're throwing others to the crocodile thinking that you're going to be eaten last. Their plan today is capital gains, which is a massive tax increase, but they're sustaining and have increased income tax while they've been in government. So if you're paying too much, get used to it unless you want to see a change.

Ben Fordham: Frank's got a question on tax for Tim Wilson. The Shadow Treasurer is live in the 2GB Breakfast Studio. You can dial in right now and ask a question or offer a comment 131873. Frank, your call.

Caller 4: Morning Tim.

Tim Wilson MP: Hi Frank.

Caller 4: Mate, I just wanted to know, the proposed capital gains tax changes, are they applicable to all asset classes or just property?

Tim Wilson MP: We don't know the answer to this yet. What we know is Jim Chalmers is out there floating ideas. He's softening the public up as Peter Costello has said and he's trying to dress it up as though it's about a fair go for young people and mobilizing young people against older Australians who've worked hard, saved and sacrificed but this is thinning of the wedge stuff as you know Frank they put it in place they'll say it's only on this little thing here but then they'll progressively expand it across the board. So you've got to assume that this is going to be a housing tax to start with, but continue across the border.

Ben Fordham: The union heavyweight Bill Kelty has warned the Treasurer about scaling back the capital gains tax discount. He says "the move must be accompanied by tax cuts otherwise it's going to be another hit to young people". When are we going to get some fair income income tax cuts?

Tim Wilson MP: Well I'm hoping this is something we're absolutely going to look at it and if we can achieve it, it's something I want to achieve because 47 cents in the dollar, this is the point Bill Kelty makes, Paul Keating makes, but Jim Chalmers has kept 47 cents in the dollars as a top marginal tax rate and actually we legislated last time we're in government, he reversed that to keep it high. It's not fair. It taxes young people in particular when all they've got is their physical labour or of course their intellectual labour.

Ben Fordham: We've got a call coming in from someone who we speak to regularly on the program, Theo Foukkare, who's the boss of the Australian Association of Convenience Stores. Theo, go right ahead. You've got Tim Wilson's ear.

Caller 5: Morning Tim and Ben. My question Tim is why do you think the current government continues to have their head in the sand and not take control of this policy disaster around both tobacco excise as well as not standing up more funding for enforcement to actually to help the states close down these stores?

Tim Wilson MP: Theo, simple question, simple answer, it's pride. They like to carry on that they're the ones who have been responsible for reduction in tobacco consumption. What they have done is replicated the experience of prohibition in the United States in the 1920s and 1930s. They've brought in criminal gangs who profiteer, who use that money to do things like sponsor terrorism in Australia, and that is none inflammatory thing to say. That is what the Australian government is doing. It's pride on the line. Once they admit that they got it wrong, they have to accept that a lot of the measures they've taken from plain packaging to the tax excise was fundamentally ill thought through, and they'd have to swallow their pride.

Ben Fordham: A question now on One Nation, it's coming from Margaret. Hi Margaret.

Caller 6: Hi Ben, how are you?

Ben Fordham: Doing well.

Caller 6: That's good. I just have a question for Tim, why should I not vote One Nation?

Ben Fordham: Ow... Good question.

Tim Wilson MP: Thanks Margaret. The simple answer is they don't actually have a plan for our country and they can't govern for our county. We have to make sure we take the whole of the community with us together. Their history, their practice in the past is they seek to divide but more important than that, that they attack different sections of the community. Some of the things that the leader, plus others have said in the past have been despicable. We need to focus on how we're uniting our nation. Taking it forward together and building a better country for everybody.

Ben Fordham: If they're so bad, why are they running rings around you?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, I think there's a lot of middle finger voting going on. A lot of people saying, we're not happy with the status quo and you have to earn back our trust. And I'm talking about we Liberals and Nationals need to win back their trust. I think they're right. If you think like, just think about you're a small business person and you're getting absolutely pounded right now with rising costs. And people are looking at the government saying, you're actually giving us the middle finger. We've got to stand up and fight for them. We had record small business insolvencies last year. We're on track to exceed it next year. So many people are looking for hope. We have to be that agent of hope. But more important than that, we actually need to have the policies that give people hope and deliver for them.

Ben Fordham: Tim Wilson is with us, you can call in now 131873, we'll take a quick look at the traffic with Steve Carline and then return.

Ben Fordham: Tim Wilson is with us in the studio, the Shadow Treasurer. Just back to One Nation briefly before returning to more calls. Do you believe the polls when they show One Nation's ahead of you guys?

Tim Wilson MP: I do believe that there is a lot of middle finger voting going on right now. People are saying, we're not happy. Think about pensioners.

Ben Fordham: But do you think they're ahead of you? Like, you study the polls, that's what you do, you're a politician, or do you think some of them might be overstated?

Tim Wilson MP: It's not that I think they're overstated, I think people are answering it honestly, but is that going to be the same as what it is come election time? That's an entirely different question.

Ben Fordham: Let's go to your calls. David's online right now with a question for Tim Wilson. Hi David.

Caller 7: Morning. I've got two quick questions. I need the Liberals to find out the total cost of renewables to this country. I think the nation will be absolutely shocked at the money we've wasted on this ideology. The other thing I'd love you to do is, or want to tell you, I will never vote Liberal again until Malcolm Turnbull's membership is canceled.

Ben Fordham: Okay, why don't we kick off on the cost of renewables first?

Tim Wilson MP: I don't have the exact number on me, but of course, it's in the tens of billions of dollars. There's a historical number of how much has been given in subsidies. Then there's the gap of how much more we're paying in electricity prices. But what Australians know right now is electricity prices rise month on month, year on year. The government hid it when they said they were going to give $275 off electricity prices. What they did was they gave a $300 rebate so that they could hide the fact that prices were going up. Australians are paying more and it's because of bad policy that's driving not just renewables but the whole restructuring of the energy grid which isn't driven by price and making us a competitive nation.

Ben Fordham: Just on the energy figures, in the last 24 hours, New South Wales received 70% of its power from coal and we are seeing renewables doing some more heavy lifting on days when there's lots of sunshine or lots of wind, but 70% from coal in the past 24 hours. It goes to show we still need it.

Tim Wilson MP: You still need baseload power. Where it comes from, you need what they call peaking power, which is gas, but you need a mix in the grid and having a renewable energy approach will just kill your industry. It'll force up household prices and it'll cost jobs. It's mad.

Ben Fordham: We also need nuclear but if you go to another election with a nuclear power policy, you know that you're going to get hammered?

Tim Wilson MP: Well, I don't agree with that. We believe in lifting the moratorium. I've always believed in lifting the moratorium my entire adult life. The question is, who then goes on and builds the energy we need? We've got the Victorian government, the New South Wales government pretending they don't need coal. They've got secret deals to keep them going longer. Reality has to bite. Energy reality must bite, and it is, but the problem is that households are the ones picking up the bill.

Ben Fordham: Let's go to your calls, Paul is online, Tim Wilson is our guest, the Shadow Treasurer. Your call, Paul.

Caller 8: Yeah Tim, thank you. Congratulations on your appointment.

Tim Wilson MP: Thanks Paul.

Caller 8: I just, timely enough, mine is about energy and I would like to know whether, because of the evidence to suggest that energy is contributing so much to inflation, that whether or not, and this is timely, you're going to continue to champion nuclear because I am one person that thinks that we should be going down that road and why are we taking money from the people and then paying the bills and then having the government give us the subsidy back. It makes no sense. We need to slow down. I'm all for the environment, but wow, slow down and do it in a timely manner and vary everything. We need to get these power prices down and that will affect inflation directly.

Ben Fordham: Is there any sign of them coming down Tim?

Tim Wilson MP: Well not under the current government and under the current government's policy settings. They're actively forcing out the base load power we need and replacing it with more expensive alternatives and it's not just the generation cost, meaning how much it costs to drive the turbines and everything else, it's the cost of the infrastructure, the poles and the wires. We've had this in New South Wales for a long time and so it all gets pushed down on inflation, it's all a cost on business. The cost of business gets passed on to you, the consumer, and we're all getting hit every step of the way. So until you actually focus on how to get prices down, you won't get downward pressure on inflation, you won't get cheaper bills and improved standard of living for Australians.

Ben Fordham: Julie's got a question for Tim Wilson, hi Julie.

Caller 9: Hi, how are you? Good morning, and welcome Tim to your new role. I think you're going to do well at it.

Tim Wilson MP: Thanks Julie.

Caller 9: Tim, one of the things that was mentioned in just in the last couple of weeks is the housing supply issues. And then that coupled with the government now tempting us all or saying that they're going to do the capital gains tax adjustments and all those sorts of things. Here's an idea for thought, why don't we incentivise the investors, rather than hitting them with the stick, to perhaps sell their investment properties and release some of those properties back into the market space for increased supply. Now, I've got seven investment properties. I've worked hard all my life. I'm approaching 70. So I'm now thinking of what I'm going to do with all my investment properties because I use that for my income.

Ben Fordham: And what if it was attractive enough you'd be happy to get out as long as you weren't being dudded?

Caller 9: I'm not going to be penalised, otherwise I'm just going to hunker down.

Ben Fordham: Alright, that's a really good question to raise, thank you Julie, Tim?

Tim Wilson MP: Well Julie, you've worked hard all your life to get ahead. We've had this experience in Victoria where they've been whacking more and more taxes on existing properties to try and get investors out. What happens? There's less properties available for rent. As a consequence, rents have skyrocketed in Victoria and of course, anyone who is an owner is normally a renter first. That means it's harder for them to get a head to be in a position one day to buy their own first home, which is why there's no silver bullet to this. We need to increase supply. We need to make sure that there are more houses available for Australians at different stages of life. We need make sure people feel flexible to be able to downsize as they might have had their kids leave their homes so they can live in something that's respectable and in the community they love. But the worst thing to do is just think you can whack a tax and it's going to change it. What Jim Chalmers is doing is just going for revenue and it is off you Julie.

Ben Fordham: Alright let me ask you this Tim, do we have too many homes, too many properties in this country owned by too few?

Tim Wilson MP: I don't think that's a fair assessment because, as I said before, you need rental properties. I've been a renter in the past. If you want to be able to rent a home, they need to be available to people.

Ben Fordham: People want to able to buy.

Tim Wilson MP: Absolutely. And so that's why you've got to have a full spectrum in the marketplace. If not, you've only got people living at home until they have a pathway to go on and buy their own home. We need to make sure that people can do what they need to do. Some people want rent temporarily. Some people need to be able to rent closest to where they're going to work. It's really hard for a lot of people who work for emergency services in the more affluent suburbs these days to buy. They need somewhere to rent. So what we need is more supply. That will give the pathways for choice based on what people need on their circumstances.

Ben Fordham: We heard from a bloke earlier this morning, and there were interviews up on 2GB.com, he's waiting on a building license here in New South Wales, he is waiting 20 weeks, right? So they said, "look, there's a bit of a delay", 12 weeks, 18 weeks, 20 weeks and he told us, he said, I got a gun license in 10 weeks, but a building license, 20 weeks and still waiting. For as long as you've got some of those problems in the system, we're not going fix it.

Tim Wilson MP: No, that's right. And so there's problems you've got to fix at the local level, the state level, and the national level. But we've got to speed these processes up because when it comes down to it, every delay is high cost because you're still paying the cost of financing the land and everything else and all that gets passed on to the first home buyer.

Ben Fordham: I've got less than a minute until the news, you can see the countdown clock there. This is live with Tim Wilson. You didn't answer the question on Malcolm Turnbull. You almost got out of the studio without answering.

Tim Wilson MP: You didn't put it to me, but now you have, and it's simple, he's a member of the New South Wales Division of Liberal Party, I get why people are jack of him, I'm jack of him as well. I actually believe in loyalty Ben and he had the great privilege of being the Prime Minister of this country, and has chosen subsequently to continue to complain every step of the way when I don't believe he met his own test of leadership.

Ben Fordham: I reckon Malcolm would love it if he was kicked out of the Liberal Party, that's probably exactly what he wants.

Tim Wilson MP: He wants to be a martyr.

Ben Fordham: Don't let that happen. Anyway, we appreciate your time. Thanks for coming in and doing this and let's do it again. It's a nice chance for people to be able to talk directly.

ENDS