TRANSCRIPT

INTERVIEW – 2GB, MONEY NEWS

Wednesday, 7 October 2026

Topics: surcharges; consumer confidence; immigration.

E&OE……………………..

Clinton Maynard: Well, this is the biggest economic issue, I think, of the week, and it's having an impact far beyond just the business world. It's affecting everyday Australians because we, consumers, are paying more, and that's the removal of the credit card surcharge. The businesses were levying customers for credit card payments. It is pretty clear that small businesses, in particular, cannot absorb the cost, and the consumers are footing the bill. Various organisations aren't now accepting cards as a result. Some private schools, for instance, where parents pay tens of thousands of dollars a year in fees are not accepting credit cards. The Australian Taxation Office, from later this year, if you have a tax debt, small business cannot use a credit card because the government doesn't want to absorb the cost themselves of the processing fees. Small businesses who have to manage cash flow, for instance, they rely on credit cards. You might be in that position. The ATO doesn't seem to care. Business groups are ropable. There's been a meeting held today chaired by the ATO Deputy Commissioner for Small Business, Rowan Fox. Twenty business organisations represented, and they've basically been told, "Suck it up, too bad, the change has been made, live with it". The ATO is not saying who's authorising this change in policy. There's hardly been any consultation, just good luck. The Telegraph today spoke to one business leader who said, "We're getting lip service from the government, the business community is furious, they have no idea how angry and how worried people are". The Shadow Treasurer, Tim Wilson, joins me. Hi, Tim.

Tim Wilson: G’day, Clinton.

Clinton Maynard: How can the ATO treat people like this?

Tim Wilson: Well, they can't and they shouldn't. I mean it's actually outrageous because it's the fact they're being asked to absorb the cost of credit card fees as small businesses, but then the government is turning around on a double standard and saying, but we're not going to do the same, and, you know, we've heard, as you correctly pointed out, schools, but a lot of tradies, of course a lot of retail businesses are all having to face this diabolical choice about whether they'll even allow to continue to have credit card payments because of having to absorb the fees and the impact in their business. Travel agents are just having to absorb tens of thousands of dollars of these fees, and they did it with eight hours' notice. They didn't have the guts to actually tell people in advance.

Clinton Maynard: And my understanding today, Tim, is that during this meeting that was suddenly called, they've been given short shrift. They haven't been told who's made the decision, who's authorised it, and in terms of being able to convince Jim Chalmers for the ATO responsibility to make a change, just nothing.

Tim Wilson: Well, the Treasurer is off in Japan at the moment trying to reassure Japanese investors that he hasn't created sovereign risk problems. Hint, Jim, if you have to tell people you're not a sovereign risk, you are, and so, it's clearly been authorised either by Dan Mulino as the Assistant Treasurer and the person responsible for the ATO, and they have got no real feedback from the ATO or adjustment in their process. Surely there's a rational pathway forward where people could accept surcharging as part of the condition of a continued payment option. The problem with that is then the government has to admit that surcharges aren't banned, they're just absorbed by small business.

Clinton Maynard: That's the thing. We were told as consumers, as customers, this was all about transparency, but in the end, it's not, because we've seen businesses, and I'm not blaming them for doing it, but increasing the price of a cup of coffee by 50 cents. Now, yeah, they could be accused of profiteering, but it's also simple because it's not easy to increase the price of a cup of coffee by 1.5%.

Tim Wilson: Well, they've got inflation and other costs too, and a lot of small businesses are desperate to keep their costs down, to stay competitive and, you know, to serve their customers well. So, there's always a lot of different inputs that go into the increases in prices, but it's a double standard, I think, that’s got people really up the rub and the lack of notice, because a lot of people, when they put their bills on their credit card, it's their cheap financing mechanism if they pay it off quickly enough, and of course, if you're told with eight hours' notice, oh you know that $10,000 bill for school fees, that no longer happens, then your $20,000 ATO BAS bill, that can no longer be paid for by credit card, you're basically being asked to stump up tens of thousands of dollars in a moment's notice.

Clinton Maynard: I'm with the Shadow Treasurer Tim Wilson. Tim, just on a couple of other matters, consumer confidence figures released this week were terrible. We are looking at the worst consumer confidence since the 1990s recession. One of the ANZ measures put us back to 1974, mind you. You're elected Treasurer tomorrow because there's a snap election, Albo has had enough. How do you win back confidence of the Australian public in spending money?

Tim Wilson: Well, the first thing we got to do is repeal the taxes that the government put forward in the federal budget, things like capital gains tax. Being a Victorian, we've seen this all this whole thing play out before. Sometimes I feel like saying “I'm from the future and I can tell you it doesn't work,” where you keep increasing taxes on investors and those who are the productive parts of the economy, it just ends up in a situation, it smashes confidence, it means people don't spend, and it's again the small businesses who are at the pointy end. So, you got to start there to stabilise the situation and actually get people to spend money again.

Clinton Maynard: Yep, and one more for you Tim, your policy regarding migration that was announced by your leader Angus Taylor yesterday has been criticised by various business groups. I spoke with the Chamber of Commerce and Industry yesterday, Business Australia's against it. The Property Council of Australia has described it as a big bucket of coal water over businesses. So how on the one hand can we talk about your ability to restore confidence when they're saying we don't like your migration policy?

Tim Wilson: Well, none of them have got to the bottom of what it is they don't like. I just think they they're

Clinton Maynard: They're worried they're not going to get the right workers. And I know that Angus Taylor has said skill workers are going to be given priority. I think they're dubious about that promise.

Tim Wilson: Well, I can assure them that that is absolutely the promise that we intend to honour, because we went through a very detailed process around developing our migration policy. We looked very specifically at how we made sure that people integrated into our country, the plan worked for our national interest, but we got the skills, not just the skills we need, but where we need them. So, it's completely different from One Nation's policy, which is just a number without any detail, or Labor's, which focuses on knee-capping the temporary migration, the temporary workers that you need for things in rural and regional areas. We’ve been very specific and very detailed for that exact reason, because we get how important certain types of labour to the economy are.

Clinton Maynard: Last question for you Tim, appreciate your time this evening. Is there a chance you would sit down with some of these business groups, like the Property Council, like the Chamber of Commerce, and make some alterations to the policy, or is it set in stone?

Tim Wilson: Well, we've announced it, and I mean I do think the business groups now are saying we've got to have a proper discussion around migration. To be blunt, that conversation has been going on for 12 months, and the business community really hasn't been involved in it. They need to step up. They need to be a part of the national conversation. Too often they're complaining after the conversation's been had. We've been very clear about our intent, we've been very clear we will make a migration policy in Australia's national interest, and we have absolutely made sure that economic considerations are part of that.

Clinton Maynard: Always good to talk to you. Thank you, Tim.

Tim Wilson: Thanks Clinton.

[ENDS]