Thursday 18 June 2026

Transcript - Interview ABC News, Afternoon Briefings

Topics: Labor’s budget backflip, Barnaby Joyce, industrial relations

E&OE……………………..

Patricia Karvelas: Tim Wilson, welcome to the program.

Tim Wilson: Thank you for having me, Patricia.

Patricia Karvelas: The annual turnover threshold for Australian businesses looking to access the Capital Gains Tax concession will be raised from $2 million to $10 million. That means the vast majority of businesses will be exempt. Isn't that a welcome decision?

Tim Wilson: Not at all. I mean, we now have an explicitly two-tiered structure in the way that the government is approaching its broken promise agenda through this federal budget, and then they're actually not wanting Australian countries companies to grow and to succeed. I don't see this as a solution to the problems of the broken promises at the heart of this budget or the taxes that weren't taken to the Australian people. What the government needs to do is abandon its higher tax agenda, its budget of broken promises, that seeks to stigmatise and discourage investment and growth in the future of the Australian economy.

Patricia Karvelas: So, you don't see it as an improvement to the original proposal?

Tim Wilson: Well, it's polishing a turd, to be frank. It's a bad tax program. It was not taken to the Australian people. It was not one that was voted on at the last election. In fact, it was denied 50 times over, and now the government has gone to introduce it. They've now got a furious backlash, particularly from the small businesses of the nation, but of course, other growth companies as well. They're now trying to stem the damage that they've done to themselves. This is an answer for Labor. It's not an answer for Australians and Australian businesses that want to grow, succeed, and employ the next generation of Australians.

Patricia Karvelas: Okay, but those four reasons to be exempt were always reasons. This will now be a definition for small business which is increased. Is that something that at least philosophically you think is a good idea?

Tim Wilson: Well, I believe the best pathway forward is for Australians to be able to grow businesses and to be able to succeed. Instead, what the government has got is a political solution to a political problem that they face right now. I want to back small business. I want to empower them. I want people to build business from an early age, go on, exit them, and be part of the Australian success story. By just simply increasing a cap when the solution for the government is to seeking to achieve is higher revenue, is not solving the root cause of the problem, which is driven by the government's bad tax agenda.

Patricia Karvelas: The sweeping ministerial powers handed to Jim Chalmers in that tax legislation have been scrapped. There was a lot of criticism. The government has acted on that. Do you welcome that?

Tim Wilson: Well, it's an admission that the Treasurer got it wrong all along. This is a Treasurer that's completely out of his depth and is drowning in his own dishonesty. What we know is this legislation was very controversial in the House. They still voted for it anyway. They included large carve-outs for the Treasurer, even though multiple different groups had raised serious concerns from the Liberals to the Greens to, of course, the business community. The Treasurer has been forced to listen. He hasn't done it. They've obviously got research that's been done by their pollsters, which says that their budget is in a terrible way. So, these changes are a political solution to a political problem the government faces because of their broken trust and broken promises.

Patricia Karvelas: But the housing problem is not just a political problem, it's a real problem and young Australians have found it hard to get into the market. The Prime Minister says that element has been quite popular. A lot of Australians do tell him that it is benefiting them, that there are not people who want to just, you know, negatively gear and invest at the same auctions. Do you concede that that part of these reforms does have some popular support?

Tim Wilson: Well, firstly, the base of your question is there's a connection between the CGT changes and negative gearing. That's not correct, except it was handed down in a budget. You could do them completely independently. And absolutely, I believe that building out more housing to empower young Australians to be able to buy their first home is not just popular, it's important. The problem is the budget doesn't do that. By the government's own admission in their own budget papers, they're going to build 35,000 fewer homes as a consequence of their budget. Rents are going to rise and they're going to increase the taxes that are on first home deposits that are invested. So at every point, young Australians are still being knee-capped by this government, no matter what the narrative, no matter what the spin.

Patricia Karvelas: I want to take you to some other issues, if I can. Barnaby Joyce says you haven't landed a blow on Jim Chalmers, and he's now going to be the Treasury spokesperson for One Nation. Is he right?

Tim Wilson: Well, my focus isn't on landing blows on anybody. My focus is on making sure we get good policy to advance the interest of Australians. We've just watched the Prime Minister and the Treasurer act like hostages in their own press conference, backing down from their budget measures. So unless he's claiming he's done this in the past 24 hours, I would actually say we've done a very good job in building the momentum, coordinating the pressure against the government's bad budget. And now the government has buckled under the pressure of the Australian community. We're on the side of the Australian community and advancing their national interest. Whatever games Mr. Joyce wants to play is a matter for him.

Patricia Karvelas: Today a lot of people are talking about Pauline Hanson's speech to the National Press Club. She said Australia should be a monoculture, not multicultural. What do you make of that?

Tim Wilson: Well, I think we need to have a culture that promotes respect for every Australian, one where hard work pays off and people feel in control of their lives. We're all individuals, but monoculture will lead to conformity and the idea that we have government that dictates how people live their lives. I believe in pluralism. I believe in respect. But I also believe that there are conditions on that, that we believe in equality before the law, we believe in a society based on equal dignity of men and women, and that we believe in the equal dignity of all people. And that's the basis on which I believe in approaching public life, and more importantly, the values we should be seeking to uphold, not trying to tell people how they should live their lives.

Patricia Karvelas: Do you did you see that as what Pauline Hanson was saying? That people should behave in a certain way? I mean, she did mention Mandarin and Arabic being spoken at home.

Tim Wilson: Well, I don't really know what she says most of the time. She's entitled to her views and how she wishes to express them. I'm telling you the type of country I want us to be, one where people come to Australia, they commit to Australia, they contribute to Australia, and where we can succeed as one land, one people with one destiny.

Patricia Karvelas: She also says the nation needs an industrial relations overhaul. Before you became the Shadow Treasurer, you were the IR spokesperson. Do you think we need an industrial relations overhaul?

Tim Wilson: I've said that many times before. I think we need an environment that empowers small business to be employers. We know complexity and conflict dominates workplace laws and how we think about them, rather than how we're going to promote harmony in the workplace and empower Australians to go and employ other Australians. I think we need dramatic simplification in the system, and particularly to back the self-starers, small businesses, and self-employed in Australia to get ahead. So, I agree with that, but I agree with that before she said it. I said it first.

Patricia Karvelas: Okay, you said it first. I don't know, I can't fact-check who said it first. But she also said that it's too—

Tim Wilson: I'm very confident that I'm right.

Patricia Karvelas: All right. She said it's too difficult to dismiss workers and that some workers are lazy and don't turn up. Is it too difficult to sack workers?

Tim Wilson: There are cases explicitly where this has occurred in the Fair Work Commission. If you go through records where people have engaged in conduct which most people would consider to be unacceptable in workplaces and of course, the Fair Work Commission has sided with what I would say unsociable or unacceptable conduct in the workplace. But I think the focus has to be how do we raise standards, do we improve productivity and we encourage people to get to work. I want a nation where hard work pays off, where Australians feel in control of their lives, and they feel a basic sense of respect from their government towards them, but most importantly, how the taxes they're spending are respected as well.

Patricia Karvelas: So, do you think it needs to be easier to sack workers though?

Tim Wilson: Well, look, I think we need laws that make sure that we encourage people to work hard, and if people aren't working hard or they're not working cooperatively in businesses, then we need to look seriously at how to reform laws to address that. I outlined that there are examples in the Fair Work Commission from, you know, Uber trying to sack drivers that have engaged in inappropriate conduct, all the way to things that exist in workplaces, and you can Google them yourself if you like. There has to be a limit of making sure we protect everybody, not just the right of workers to be able to live in a safe work environment and I'm not sure that we've always got that balance right.

Patricia Karvelas: So you think she's got a point that it's hard to sack workers that are not doing what you think they should do?

Tim Wilson: Everything I'm saying now, I have said previously. She's following the discussion, I'm not following her.

Patricia Karvelas: Okay. Tim Wilson, it's always good to speak to you. Thank you.

Tim Wilson: Thank you.

[ENDS]