Sunday, 17 May 2026

Transcript - Doorstop interview, Rhodes, NSW

Topics: Federal budget, small business, CGT

E&OE...

Julian Fayad: ...amazing businesses, um, you know, that employ lots and lots of people, um, building the most innovative businesses our country has seen. And the reason we got them all together is to discuss some of the proposed changes from the, the budget the other night. And I think like the most important thing is that businesses like Loan Options AI, you know, we employ close to 40 people and, you know, we have a lot of our employees on employee share programs, um, and some of these CGT or proposed CGT changes were, um, were spoken about like they were just aimed at helping first-home buyers get into the market. But in actual fact, what it's done is disincentivize business owners from building in Australia, from building these innovative companies that employ all these, you know, wonderful Aussie staff. And, you know, the incentive just isn't there. You know, you build this business, you spend a lifetime and a life's work creating them, and then you end up having to give up to 47% away to the government. Um, they're not there on the sleepless nights, they're not there when you have to refinance your home multiple times, they're not there all the family barbecues that you miss as a result of, of working hard in a business. And, yeah, I just think it's, it's really unfair and it's a very broad brushstroke. And I feel like in order to make sure that Australia thrives in the, in the era of AI, it's really important that we get these things right. So, yeah.

Jacqui Munro: Hi, I'm Jacqui Munro, I'm the New South Wales Shadow Minister for Science and Technology. We know that Australian innovators are going to be the people who are solving some of our most complex challenges. It's not governments who will do this work. Australia's ambition should not be state-owned. The reality is that inventions like Gardasil to solar-powered rooftop panels were commercialized, invented by Australian businesses who wanted to give back to our community. In Australia, technology and innovation employ hundreds of thousands of people. In New South Wales alone, more people than mining and agriculture combined. These changes put all of that at risk and risk flight from Australia to international markets.

Mona Chiha: Um, so I'm Mona Chiha and I am a small business owner. I own a business called Juristechni. Um, we have actually created Australian sovereign explainable AI. Now, the amazing individuals that I work with every single day, the way that I've been able to incentivize them to come and work with me and take on this huge risk of starting this business is by complementing their pay packages with ESOPs, with, with the shareholding of the business. They also own the business. How am I supposed to keep up with these large businesses that are able to pay pay packages plus bonuses when the one thing that I had in my back pocket is now being taken away from us?

Frank Greeff: Hello, my name is Frank Greeff. The budget itself was painted as intergenerational equity, but the challenge is from a young person's perspective is that people are not focused just purely on buying a property right now because it's become so far out of reach. There are moments which are actually stepping stones. Having a side hustle, joining a startup that can have employee equity schemes, all of these moments can help them build and ultimately get that fairness. This approach to paint the same brush with CGT as to everything, it actually does the exact opposite. Because the challenge is the people who have built their wealth can either go and sell assets in the next year and park it all into a primary place of residence, which is a tax-free haven. They're going to be fine. That's not fairness. The fairness comes in what are we going to do for the young people? The hundreds of people that have reached out to me over the last 36 hours that have said, "Frank, I don't know if I can build a business in Australia anymore." And I think we need to look at property in a different way that we look at building a productive asset like a business.

Tom Hawley: Uh, hi, my name's Tom Hawley and I run a small business called Azura Financial. But I think these changes unfortunately, um, from my perspective and a lot of small business owners, is somewhat of an assault on, on small business because what we need right now is to champion people taking risk, innovating, building businesses and employing people. That's how we're going to get on top of our inflation challenges and that's how we're going to pay for our burgeoning, um, government spending. Yet these changes do the exact opposite. They actually disincentivize people to go into high-growth opportunities and, and build businesses, which I think is the most concerning part of, of these tax changes is that they actually do the exact opposite. Um, they drive the exact opposite of the type of outcomes that we actually need right now as a nation to actually move forward and all be in a better position, um, and to actually improve better living standards. Which is why I'm, I'm so lost as to why the government, um, would target small business in such a way.

Joseph Daoud: On the back of... hi, Joseph Daoud. On the back of what all the great small business owners behind me have said, um, this has been painted as a budget to help first-home buyers and to help intergenerational wealth. I'm someone that works with first-home buyers every single day, and I can tell you that there is potential for prices to be increased on the properties they are targeting because there's going to be less stock on market with current investors not being, not having any incentive to sell their properties. And it's also going to push the prices up of newly built price- uh, properties as negative gearing- whoop- as people chasing that negative gearing and the tax incentive for those property- for themselves from there, that's what they're going to be purchasing. So I do not believe this actually helps first-home buyers. And furthermore on to that, we've seen the government recently make amendments for the First Home Guarantee, increase the amount of debt to first-home buyers. More debt does not mean more affordability. It just means higher repayments for life.

Tim Wilson: Well, can I first- can I start by thanking Julian and all the founders who've come together this morning, um, as part of having a discussion, a roundtable about the impact that Tuesday's budget is going to do to kneecap startups, small businesses, and the self-starters of our nation. When I think about the type of country we want to be, we want to be a stand-up economy, not a sit-down economy. What we want is young Australians to look to the horizon, believe in themselves, and build businesses for the future that employ the next generation of Australians. What's clear from Tuesday's budget is the government doesn't understand the consequences of the new taxes they're putting in place. We've heard today that from the self-starters of the nation themselves, the- the people who are the future, and I have huge admiration and respect not just for what they've done, what they're doing, but what can yet be done. And the government is now coming along and saying that they want to take a 47% stake in these small businesses. They've done none of the work, they've taken none of the risk, but they want to claim half the business. The Prime Minister is like that person in a group assignment that never seems to do anything but at the end of the day wants to take the same grade when they haven't done half the work. This is the problem with the approach of the government. They're looking at startups, um, small businesses, and the self-starters of our country like a tax-milking cow when what we actually want is tax settings that encourage them to thrive. Because it's not just about the people who start the businesses but the employees along the way. As one of the- as Mona said before, share- employee share ownership schemes are a central part of the incentive to attract the best talent to our country, to be able to invest in a business and to take the risks that we need, particularly as we move into the economy of the future, which is much more orientated towards artificial intelligence and technology. We want to be backing young Australians in, not taxing them out of risk because they see no reward. Happy to take questions.

Journalist: Just got a few questions from my colleagues in Canberra. Just for young investors, one of their only opportunities for wealth creation through shares and rent-vesting has been degraded because of changes to CGT negative gearing. Would you agree with that?

Tim Wilson: The government is kneecapping young Australians in every pathway they're pursuing to get ahead, whether it's rent-vesting so they can buy property, um, while they rent where they want to live, whether it's through self-starters and small businesses in becoming their own founders and employing the next generation of Australians. But let's not forget that young Australians are buying shares, ETFs, and crypto at record rates. Generation Z, 85% buy crypto, shares, or ETFs and are at risk now of nearly half of their gain being taken by the government. This budget is kneecapping the aspiration and the dreams of young Australians through needless higher taxes and it's because the government, when they're turning around to Australians saying "pull your belt in," won't do the same.

Journalist: The Treasurer says that shares have been underperforming for the last 20 years because of the tax settings on CGT have been wrong. Do you agree that it's better for young people to invest based on economic benefits rather than tax benefits?

Tim Wilson: I think young Australians should invest based on how they think it's best for them to get ahead. The idea that the Treasurer thinks that he can dictate to Australians their pathway, their dreams, their success, is not just arrogant, it's ignorant. Young Australians are making choices and- are making choices about how they want to get ahead with their lives by buying shares, by buying crypto, by buying ETFs because they can see incrementally how it's going to get them on the pathway to their dream. His idea of coming along and saying he has a better answer just reminds me that he is completely captured by, um, industry super funds. His objective is to control young Australians, not empower them.

Journalist: Some small businesses say they won't survive another 12 months. What would your party do to address those cost-of-living pressures they're facing?

Tim Wilson: Well, Australia already has record small business insolvency, um, sadly, and we're on track to have an even higher number this financial year. We are going to back small business in hard. On Wednesday, I'm giving a speech at the National Press Club that is going to step out our agenda for small business as the backbone of the economy, but the pillar in which we are going to build a future around of growth. And it's going to start not just with tax but looking at how we empower more Australians to become- to have a side hustle, um, to invest in equity schemes, and to start a new small business to get ahead.

Journalist: There's been more One Nation defections- Holly Hughes, Tina McQueen. Uh, is the Liberal Party in trouble?

Tim Wilson: If somebody wants to follow others into the orange paddock of despair, that is their choice. We are going to focus on how we build out the future of the Australian economy, back the self-starters that are standing behind me right now, because we need incentives and focus built on growth. Because while some follow, uh, others to the paddock- orange paddock of despair, they're not focused on how they're building the future of the economy and holding Labor to account.

Journalist: Do you foresee any more defections to One Nation?

Tim Wilson: As I said, if anybody wants to follow, uh, others into the orange paddock of despair, that's their choice. They're not the ones looking to the horizon with optimism and confidence and the spirit of what we can build in this country.

Journalist: Tina McQueen says Pauline Hanson is the only hope we've got. How do you respond to a senior Liberal figure saying that your party has no hope?

Tim Wilson: Well, she's not a senior Liberal figure.

Journalist: So you- you don't agree with her? You think the party has hope?

Tim Wilson: I- I think it's pretty clear that my focus is- is on how we back the self-starters of the country to get ahead, not follow people into the orange paddock of despair. We- Australians have a choice about the direction of the country we need to be and the type of country we want to be. I want Australia to be more like the people standing behind me, not simply feeding resentment and division.

Journalist: You've got to admit though the Liberal Party is in trouble? It's in a downward spiral.

Tim Wilson: Politics is a competitive environment just like the startup and founders that are surrounding me right now. They know that you've got to be constantly innovating, focusing, and building out the case, uh, for the future. One of the worst things about the budget on Tuesday night is that the government is simply targeting, um, young Australians who are getting ahead, backing themselves to empower not just themselves to build the prosperity of the future of the country, but also for their families and for their employees. And we're going to keep doing exactly the same thing in a political context.

Journalist: Polling shows that One Nation is leading in seats like Calcare and in the Blue Mountains area. Do you accept that the Liberal Party has lost the trust of regional and rural voters and how do you plan to win that back?

Tim Wilson: Oh, I- I absolutely believe we operate in a competitive environment as the founders behind me can tell you. Um, operating in a competitive environment where you've, um, have disruptive insurgents, um, and you're an established player, creates challenges. But we're focused on how do we make sure that Australia succeeds because when Australia succeeds, it's because we have a bold and confident Liberal nation that builds the future of this great country. Good questions.

Tim Wilson: Thanks.

[ENDS]