Friday, 9 October 2026

Topics: ATO credit card ban; surcharges; housing; construction.

E&OE……………………..

Tom Steinfort: There is a rift in sideline Labor walls this morning as government ministers fail to agree on a stance regarding the ATO’s controversial credit card ban. Joining us to discuss today's headlines, we have Minister for Defence Industry Pat Conroy and Shadow Treasurer Tim Wilson. Nice to see you both. Pat, might start with you. The government wants mum and dad investors, or sorry, mum and dad businesses rather, to absorb those credit card merchant fees, but your own departments won't. Surely that is hypocritical?

Pat Conroy: Well, there's two separate issues here. The first issue is the banning of the fees paid on credit cards. When I go to a servo and buy a pie and a Coke and it costs ten dollars, it should be ten dollars whether I use cash or a card, and that's what consumers want, and that's a really important decision. As for the ATO, what ministers have been drawing attention to is it's really important that the ATO has proper transition processes in place and consults with the small business community. We think they need to do that properly, and that's what ministers have been drawing attention to. So, there's two separate issues here. One is about transparency for consumers. The second one is how ATO manages their obligations and supports small businesses.

Tom Steinfort: So, would you like to see the ATO accepting credit cards again then?

Pat Conroy: What I'd like to see the ATO do is continue to consult with small business and make sure there's an appropriate transition period so that small businesses…

Tom Steinfort: What's your preference on how that's handled?

Pat Conroy: Well, my preference is for them to do their job and talk to small businesses and make sure they manage the process properly. There are other, including in that consultation, consulting on other ways of supporting small businesses in their payments to the ATO. But the important thing is that the ATO should be consulting properly, taking the time to get this right and managing the transition process. What Labor ministers have been doing is appropriately urging the ATO to consult with small businesses. This is about transparency for consumers, that's what the broader decision is about. When I go to a servo, whether I pay with cash or card, it should be the same, and that's what this decision by the Reserve Bank is ultimately about.

Tom Steinfort: I think the issue here is though that you've come in and told businesses what to do, but you won't tell the ATO, your own department, what to do.

Pat Conroy: Well, the ATO is managing their obligations under the Reserve Bank decision. What they need to do, and this is what we are telling them to do, is consult with small businesses, make sure there's a transition period, and consult on other ways of supporting small businesses. But the broader point is there, consumers want transparency. When I go to a shop, the price should be the same whether I pay with cash or card, so that people know that going in, and that's what the decision from the Reserve Bank is all about.

Tom Steinfort: Tim, what do you make of all of this?

Tim Wilson: Well, your point about hypocrisy, Tom, is bang on. But I guess the question is who is actually in charge at the moment? We've got the Prime Minister in the Pacific, we've got the Treasurer off in Japan, we've got an open warfare. When the Prime Minister and the Treasurer are away, the kids will play. Andrew Charlton and Clare O'Neil and even Jim Chalmers' junior minister, Anne Aly, are all having contradictory positions about what should happen. They're actually auditioning to replace Jim Chalmers, it seems to me. But the real problem is that small business is being left with the bill. There's a cash flow crunch right now where small businesses are being told they have to absorb a cost and the ATO won't do the same and they're being left hung and dry. The ATO needs to overturn its ban because this is a situation of complete inconsistency between the standard set for small business and the standard set for the Australian Taxation Office imposed by the Albanese government.

Tom Steinfort: All right, we'll move on now. The government is well behind its annual housing targets, in fact even falling short of the previous Morrison government. That's according to new data that has been released. Pat, are you still feeling optimistic that you're going to get these houses built?

Pat Conroy: I'm very optimistic, and the last figures were actually encouraging. We've seen building approvals grow on annual terms by around 9%. In the last quarter, we saw commencements and completions grow, I think, around 7%. So, there is momentum in the market. I don't think people should focus on individual monthly figures because we've got some pretty strong headwinds like the war in the Middle East, and I think that that is really important. We're seeing building approvals on an annual basis the highest they've been since 2021, since the COVID price spike on construction costs, and we're dealing with a war in the Middle East. We've got a $47 billion package to support building more homes in this country and we're getting on with it. Artificial comparisons to what occurred 10 years ago before we had COVID, before we had the war in the Middle East, just don't help anyone. We're focused on building houses, we're seeing the annual figures show really encouraging results, and that's what we're going to keep focusing on.

Tom Steinfort: Tim, it's not like it's just a Labor problem. I mean the Liberal Party had issues with hitting these targets too. Are we just too ambitious as a country on this front?

Tim Wilson: Not at all. I mean we have built a lot more homes under the previous Coalition government than this Labor government is doing, and even more than that, we have a situation now where they're not meeting their targets, they've built a massive bureaucracy that doesn't go on and build the homes that they promised the Australian community they would need. And it means that it's only going to lead making it harder for young Australians to go on and buy their first home, and of course the cost of rents will rise as a consequence. So, Australians have been left hung and dry by a policy that the government can't deliver on. And frankly, to hear Pat now say the reason they can't build more homes in Australia is because of the war in Iran shows just how much they're trying to shift responsibility and doesn't actually understand that it's your responsibility, Pat, to build these homes.

Tom Steinfort: Hey, quickly before we go, gents…

Pat Conroy: Well, Tim, you are just wrong there. We're growing.

Tom Steinfort: All right, before we let you go…

Pat Conroy: We are growing housing approvals and your policies would destroy skilled workers in this country.

Tim Wilson: I’m sorry, the numbers show you are failing.

Tom Steinfort: Oh, now they’re firing up.

Pat Conroy: They’re up 9%. Up 9%.

Tim Wilson: All you’re focussed on doing is building bigger bureaucracies, not delivering more houses and that’s what the data actually shows.

Tom Steinfort: All right, to calm things down…

Pat Conroy: Your policies would smash housing construction.

Tom Steinfort: To calm things down, let’s talk sleep rituals…

Tim Wilson: I'm afraid that's not true, Pat.

Tom Steinfort: Nope, okay, we won't. I think we will, let's talk… the next ad break. Thank you, gents.

[ENDS]